10KW LENR Demonstrator?

[KitemanSA]

If my grandmother would have something she'll become grandfather.

Whaa???

[KitemanSA]

Or has Hitchens put it more concisely:
"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence"

But there IS "evidence". Not great evidence perhaps, but many reports of significant excess heat. And so far all I've heard to the contrary (with one or two exceptions I am still running down) are statements along the line of "it can't be true because of this irrelevancy or that non-fact". It is distressing. I have seen the unit running via video. Is there anything that anyone can tell me FACTUALLY that would provide me with a reason to swing one way or the other? I am still at the "maybe its a scam, maybe its real" stage. Oh well.

YES, I KNOW. The evidence is not real credible. The guy LOOKS like a clown. But so did Einstein. Not as much as Rossi, but still, that is no basis to decide on. Arrghh!

[bcglorf]

bcglof --Measurements don't make predictions or explanations, theories do. Measurements just are.

Though I agree of course that measurements must be confirmed and replicated.

Theories explain or predict measurements. In this case, we lack the measurements needed to declare that standard theory can't explain what is happening. Lacking accurate enough measurements to rule out standard theory leaves us lacking any evidence that theory has been violated.

This of course leads back to assertions lacking evidence can dismissed without evidence.

[Joseph Chikva]

Some observations on the Rossi demonstration video released by Kervit.
Reasonably good video quality.
...
Another 10% insulation loss from the reactor leaves 4kW - 0.4kW - 0.4kw - 598W = 2602W for steam generation.

IF the 7kg/hr was converted to dry steam at 100C, the power out was ~5kW according to Giorgio.. I calculated 4.99 so I guess we did the same calc.

I agree with your and Giorgio's calc however, I was calculating the absolute minimum enthalpy we should see at the output of the hose taking into account worse case system heat losses. The video indicates less than 1m/s steam velocity. The steam cannot be not superheated, even if 100% dry at the boiler (which is impossible).
My point is (in this demonstration anyway) considerably less than 2000W of energy is exiting the hose as steam.

I see qualified comment.
What do think when Mr. Rossi claims that not more than 1 g of hydrogen spending? Why not flow-meter? Etc., etc., etc.

[KitemanSA]

The video indicates less than 1m/s steam velocity.

How in the heck did you come up with this?

Does anyone know how to extract sequenced stills from a video? Can someone to a photogrametry study on the output? It looked WAY more than 1 m/s to me.

[bcglorf]

Or has Hitchens put it more concisely:
"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence"

But there IS "evidence". Not great evidence perhaps, but many reports of significant excess heat. And so far all I've heard to the contrary (with one or two exceptions I am still running down) are statements along the line of "it can't be true because of this irrelevancy or that non-fact". It is distressing. I have seen the unit running via video. Is there anything that anyone can tell me FACTUALLY that would provide me with a reason to swing one way or the other? I am still at the "maybe its a scam, maybe its real" stage. Oh well.

YES, I KNOW. The evidence is not real credible. The guy LOOKS like a clown. But so did Einstein. Not as much as Rossi, but still, that is no basis to decide on. Arrghh!

Youtube is NOT evidence. People can walk on water and heal with miracles if that is your bar.

Evidence that scientific theory can't explain this needs to meet a higher bar than a video and one guys claimed measurements. Until there is independent verification, I don't see why I should pay this any more heed than the any number of perpetual motion 'inventions'.

It's Rossi who is making the extraordinary claims, and it is he that must provide the extraordinary evidence. Video taping it, but refusing to let reviewers examine the setup or replicate it is NOT extraordinary evidence. It's not evidence at all, it's just so much big talk with NOTHING to back it.

[Joseph Chikva]

The guy LOOKS like a clown. But so did Einstein.

Whaa.
He like Einstein and someone like Landau or Feynman.
Mr. Einstein junior who can not measure heat correctly.

[KitemanSA]

...sing. (OPINION)

What I say is my opinion. (FACT)

... (OPINION)

... (OPINION)

... (OPINION)

Thank you for your opinion.

[bcglorf]

The video indicates less than 1m/s steam velocity.

How in the heck did you come up with this?

Does anyone know how to extract sequenced stills from a video? Can someone to a photogrametry study on the output? It looked WAY more than 1 m/s to me.

It only matters to those that count the video as evidence. I personally agree you really can't tell from the video, meaning you've got nothing to go on but 1 guys word on the matter. And more over, that 1 guy is expecting you to dismiss standard theory with a system badly lacking in precise and detailed measurements and data to even try to rule out standard theory.

[polyill]

I apologize, if I am asking a question that has already been answered. I just don't have the time now to catch up on the last 5 pages, but this is a question that I had while watching the video. Please ignore it if anybody asked/answered this.

The setup shows two thermocouples to measure the dT, one is in the canister, while the other is in the "chimney" (( is he an engineer? ). Between the thermocouples there is an electrified pump and about 2 meters of a pvc(?) tube to conduct the water to the E-Cat. Right? OK.

The gray cable is the one with the measuring device on. Right?
The pump has a black power cable, right? It goes to a multi that is connected to another power outlet (2:24-2:46 video time) behind the H containers. Right?

Now the questions:

1. Why is the thermocouple in the canister, and not at the E-Cat inlet?
2. Why is there an extra insulation on the tube between the pump and the inlet, and no such insulation between the canister and the pump?
3. Is the power consumed by the pump measured?
4. Is it possible to tweak the pump in a way it not only pumps, but also HEATS the passing liquid?

[KitemanSA]

Youtube is NOT evidence. People can walk on water and heal with miracles if that is your bar.

Actually, it is if consistant with posts by a number of people giving consistant written reports on the item. Evidence, not proof.

Evidence that scientific theory can't explain this needs to meet a higher bar than a video and one guys claimed measurements. Until there is independent verification, I don't see why I should pay this any more heed than the any number of perpetual motion 'inventions'.

I think scientific theory CAN explain this so this whole paragraph is needless. He is not presenting "scientific evidence" he is demostrating a prototype. It either works, or it is a scam. Less and less do I believe it is delusion. And I HOPE I don't have to remind you that fusion is NOT a perpetual motion invention.

It's Rossi who is making the extraordinary claims, and it is he that must provide the extraordinary evidence. Video taping it, but refusing to let reviewers examine the setup or replicate it is NOT extraordinary evidence. It's not evidence at all, it's just so much big talk with NOTHING to back it.

As I count it there have been at least EIGHT demonstrations (well, three of them were non-public so perhaps they didn't happen) to a wide range of people and NONE of them detected any suggestion of scam? Yes I know the Krivit and Rossi et.al. had a falling out, but did Krivit denounce it as a scam?
I guess we shall see eventually. Why decide now? Unless you have anything FACTUAL to bring up! Please?

[KitemanSA]

It only matters to those that count the video as evidence. I personally agree you really can't tell from the video, meaning you've got nothing to go on but 1 guys word on the matter. And more over, that 1 guy is expecting you to dismiss standard theory with a system badly lacking in precise and detailed measurements and data to even try to rule out standard theory.

Who is expecting you to dismiss standard theory?
Oh, you mean you would need to dismiss your CONCLUSIONS based on your limited knowledge of standard theory. Well, growth can be painful!

[chrismb]

If leonardo corp is a scam then LTI is a scam and so are it's directors one of whom is the former secretary of renewable energy under Bill Clinton.

(Isn't that proof it's a scam?)

[chrismb]

Or has Hitchens put it more concisely:
"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence"

But there IS "evidence". Not great evidence perhaps, but many reports of significant excess heat.

Claims... there are claims...

What can be asserted with claims can be dismissed with claims!

[bcglorf]

Actually, it is if consistant with posts by a number of people giving consistant written reports on the item. Evidence, not proof.

I wasn't under the impression that multiple other people had written reports of the measurements and results. I understood a few people had been given restricted access to observe in essence what was already visible in the video. The so-to-speak black box was closed to everyone, no?

Unless you have anything FACTUAL to bring up!

Only that Rossi hasn't presented anything factual beyond his word that his set-up has absolutely nothing that can be explained without invoking fission/fusion. It's on him to provide the facts, why is that so hard for you to grasp?