cdsweb.cern.ch/record/508276/files/0107050.pdf
Of course they are not the same folks in our Soap Opera, but it is an interesting cooincidence.
Maybe the kids...
10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)
"Today we sold in the USA a 1 MW plant which will go to a normal Customer. This installation will be visitable by the qualified public. We wait to have completed the contractual procedure through the attorneys, then we will give communication. It will be in the North East of the USA, where I have been in these days.
Warm Regards
AR"
Well OK. What ever.I disagree. While the observations may be the result of fraud, they are still observations.
And if what was observed never happened? It is still an observation.
You may not have observed my recent acquisition of a bridge, but I assure you I can give you a very good price if you buy now.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
Close your eyes and repeat to yourself "it never happened, it never happened, it never happened".MSimon wrote:Well OK. What ever.I disagree. While the observations may be the result of fraud, they are still observations.
And if what was observed never happened? It is still an observation.
You may not have observed my recent acquisition of a bridge, but I assure you I can give you a very good price if you buy now.
If you send me your address, I'll send you a box of tissues in the mail.
No tissues or eye closings needed.Crawdaddy wrote:Close your eyes and repeat to yourself "it never happened, it never happened, it never happened".MSimon wrote:Well OK. What ever.I disagree. While the observations may be the result of fraud, they are still observations.
And if what was observed never happened? It is still an observation.
You may not have observed my recent acquisition of a bridge, but I assure you I can give you a very good price if you buy now.
If you send me your address, I'll send you a box of tissues in the mail.
Fortunately for Rossi and other similar operations there are always believers.
“I slept with faith and found a corpse in my arms on awakening; I drank and danced all night with doubt and found her a virgin in the morning.”
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
SImon,
It is strange how you and many others here, are so certain the E-Cat is a fraud. LENR is real as you posted. The evidence we have (a couple of dozen reliable witnesses) leans towards it being real, but no one can tell for certain until until there is independent proof. There seems no way he can make money from this without the customer checking first. So, what drives you to take such a firm position?
It is strange how you and many others here, are so certain the E-Cat is a fraud. LENR is real as you posted. The evidence we have (a couple of dozen reliable witnesses) leans towards it being real, but no one can tell for certain until until there is independent proof. There seems no way he can make money from this without the customer checking first. So, what drives you to take such a firm position?
LENR may or may not be real. If it is real the effect is close to the noise level in terms of energy production. Warm water is not the foundation of modern civilization. Water at 350 C is another matter.parallel wrote:SImon,
It is strange how you and many others here, are so certain the E-Cat is a fraud. LENR is real as you posted. The evidence we have (a couple of dozen reliable witnesses) leans towards it being real, but no one can tell for certain until until there is independent proof. There seems no way he can make money from this without the customer checking first. So, what drives you to take such a firm position?
Why do I take a firm position? The man has not one but TWO fraud convictions. He refuses to do the obvious - heat a very large bucket of water.
And then there is the SMELL. I smell EEStor type emanations. And yet on this very board there were those who were SURE - the k value was measured and conformed to the prospectus. Not much has changed around here except the names of most of the players.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
But again, this is just empiricism, not theory. You're saying we don't know of any chemical reactions that have the observed energy density. But if it's a novel reaction (which it would kind of have to be), expert chemists and their empirical knowledge are not going to be helpful.parallel wrote:TallDave,
The best data showing the reaction is not chemical is from the earlier demo with the two Swedish professors, when the E-Cat was only 50cc. There aren't any chemicals that contain that much energy let alone nickel & a gram of H2.
On the BLP side, there were several chemistry professors involved in the replications. Unless you know more about chemistry than they do, it is probably safe to accept their verdict. They knew of the claims of it being a possible chemical reaction and went to extensive lengths too show it was not possible.
What I'd really like to see is the calculated energy density of a test run and then a comparison with the highest-density chemical reactions known to Man. That would be a good starting point, then we could work back to assumptions about errors in the measurements, and maybe we'd be able to say some interesting things about the plausibility of such a chemical reaction.
n*kBolt*Te = B**2/(2*mu0) and B^.25 loss scaling? Or not so much? Hopefully we'll know soon...
Good exchange, and credit to Krivit for posting it, thanks for mentioning it.ladajo wrote:Krivit has posted an interesting exchange with Tom Blakeslee. Worth a read if you'all get a chance.
I also took a look at Rossi's January Patent app from Italy today. Another insteresting read. Made me wonder again about his curious ideas on shielding.
Some of the critiques Blakeslee had of Krivit's "reporting" I agree with, especially that he is emotionally invested. which is contaminating his supposed objectivity.
Rossi's actions-- ranging from continually announcing "deals" which never appear, and implying he's about to have his work tested by others-- but then on closer examination you find out that he has set standards which make it impossible that such a test will ever occur is a classic action of a fraudster. You claim that "University of X" is testing your gear-- and then you get the PR. It's only later that you find out that University of X *will* test your gear...once you pay them.parallel wrote:SImon,
It is strange how you and many others here, are so certain the E-Cat is a fraud. LENR is real as you posted. The evidence we have (a couple of dozen reliable witnesses) leans towards it being real, but no one can tell for certain until until there is independent proof. There seems no way he can make money from this without the customer checking first. So, what drives you to take such a firm position?
Of course, you never pay them, because the thing you want, that headline, "MAGIX BOX TO BE TESTED BY UNIVERSITY OF X" is out there.
Then there's the Department of Defense and Thermoelectric generator fiasco-- which , shell we say, was rather convenient for Rossi. It's also rather odd that he never returned to the concept, given that he was claiming levels of conversion efficiency that even today haven't been equaled.
So we have someone who claims ot have an incredible process, who refuses to let people look at it, who has mysteriously invisible customers, who has been involved in past claims of this sort which turned out to be false, and who is putting out deceptive publicity.
If it walks like a duck....
Check out my blog-- not just about fusion, but anything that attracts this 40 something historians interest.
Chemistry, which is really just the physics of electromagnetism, is not an empirical science. The energy of a chemical reaction is determined by changes in the distribution of electron density of a system. The energy limit of a chemical reactionis set by the energies available to the outermost electrons of the reactants, which are the only electrons available to form bonds. In the case of the rossi reactor, the reported data is easily 100 times any theoretically possible chemical reaction between nickel and hydrogen.TallDave wrote:parallel wrote:TallDave,
The best data showing the reaction is not chemical is from the earlier demo with the two Swedish professors, when the E-Cat was only 50cc. There aren't any chemicals that contain that much energy let alone nickel & a gram of H2.
On the BLP side, there were several chemistry professors involved in the replications. Unless you know more about chemistry than they do, it is probably safe to accept their verdict. They knew of the claims of it being a possible chemical reaction and went to extensive lengths too show it was not possible.
But again, this is just empiricism, not theory. You're saying we don't know of any chemical reactions that have the observed energy density. But if it's a novel reaction (which it would kind of have to be), expert chemists and their empirical knowledge are not going to be helpful.
What I'd really like to see is the calculated energy density of a test run and then a comparison with the highest-density chemical reactions known to Man. That would be a good starting point, then we could work back to assumptions about errors in the measurements, and maybe we'd be able to say some interesting things about the plausibility of such a chemical reaction.
These calculations are easy to do.
Just to be clear, it is you who is behaving like a believer. I have never said that rossi is legitimate. I have simply pointed out that the subjective notion that rossi is obviously a fraud is false.MSimon wrote:No tissues or eye closings needed.Crawdaddy wrote:Close your eyes and repeat to yourself "it never happened, it never happened, it never happeMSimon wrote: Well OK. What ever.
And if what was observed never happened? It is still an observation.
You may not have observed my recent acquisition of a bridge, but I assure you I can give you a very good price if you buy now.
ned".
If you send me your address, I'll send you a box of tissues in the mail.
Fortunately for Rossi and other similar operations there are always believers.
“I slept with faith and found a corpse in my arms on awakening; I drank and danced all night with doubt and found her a virgin in the morning.”
And do not forget that Rossi's TEG prototype AND the lab that tested it was destroyed by fire....cgray45 wrote: Then there's the Department of Defense and Thermoelectric generator fiasco-- which , shell we say, was rather convenient for Rossi. It's also rather odd that he never returned to the concept, given that he was claiming levels of conversion efficiency that even today haven't been equaled.