New Solar Cells, alright

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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mad_derek
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:08 am
Location: UK (mostly)

Post by mad_derek »

ladajo wrote:"A large (by UK terms) 5 bedroom house (in the country) has an area of about 100 sq. m."

Good lord! My 5 bedroom here in the states is 250m^2.

You never should have taxed the tea...
You're probably right about the tea!

I think in this case it's more to do with population density ...

I should perhaps have pointed out that generally houses here have two floors so the floor area is around 200 sq. m. In fairness I should perhaps have added in the (detatched) garage area which is about 42 sq. m.
Insanity Rules!

chrismb
Posts: 3161
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:00 pm

Post by chrismb »

Skipjack wrote:
There is no point in building structures with a lifespan of more than 50 or 60 years.
So if I were to buy a house that was built in the eighties, it will fall down on me in 20 years from now?
Hmm, all of a sudden houses in the US dont seem to be such a good deal after all.
When I first started looking at Australian housing I thought it was cheap. But then I realised these aren't double-brick tiled roof cavity houses, and there are various other construction details of a "nothern european house" that tend not to be followed, including fixtures like double glazing, central heating. I reckon that if you built a UK house in the US or Australia then it'd cost pretty much the same. And if you built a US/Canada style wooden construction house in the UK it'd come out pretty cheap.

'Self-build' in Aus is still very strong as urban land isn't fully saturated in many cities and one German chap I was talking to there who was having a house built for him gave instructions to the builders to add more wall thickness and more insulation, etc., and they basically flat out said "no" 'cos they didn't know how to build anything more than they were doing. I guess you only have to look at some of the kWh/GDP figures to figure out which countries use the most efficient building techniques.

There has been a move to build wooden houses with brick facia here in the UK too, but it is derided by the building industry, and they fetch a substantially lower price at sale, and "most" house fires in houses <10 years old are this type of house. I should add that the other feature of UK houses is that they have to be totally lined with fire resistant plaster board materials and doors that can resist a fire for X minutes, so the fire brigade get all shirty when you build anything else, as do the insurance companies. You'd probably shell out more for a wooden house in insurance alone here, over and above its cost when compared to a brick-and-mortar tile roofed house.

So you say there's no point building a house for a >50 year life? It's not a sensible argument because you're forgetting "residual value" - that's why a UK house is expensive - 'cos it'll have a good value when you come to sell it. There are very few "expensive" things that aren't also valuable as a used thing, especially houses.

Bottom line is - house prices are dictated by the cost of land (obviously more expensive in dense areas). We live in a global market and the actual build-price raw-material would be, I reckon, essentially equal if you actually built the same house, like-for-like, in most any country. Build costs aren't proportionate to floor space, and smaller houses can attract a "relative" premium price as they are cheaper to run! Why do you want a big house when your heating costs are already a huge fraction of your income?

Skipjack
Posts: 6818
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Post by Skipjack »

Well, central heating, even central air conditioning are standard in US housrs, at least from what I have seen.

mad_derek
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:08 am
Location: UK (mostly)

Post by mad_derek »

Yes, that didn't go quite the way I expected.

I was trying to point out that 100s of sq. m of roof area was certainly not typical of family houses in Europe (Austria I can't comment on - not having visited there for about 50 years). I can see that US areas are considerably greater, in general.

ChrisMB has effectively confirmed my figures on UK roof areas.

I am intrigued by MSimon's remarks on design lifetime for housing ... perhaps I should point out that at the time of my previous posts I was in one of my London flats - in a building dating from the 1870s. It started life (I suspect) as a 'spacious four bedroom house with adequate servant quarters' - estate agent speak - and is now configured as five flats. The flats currently offer 1 kitchen/breakfast room, 4 kitchens, 5 living/dining rooms, 13 bedrooms, 6 bathrooms and 4 shower rooms (bathrooms/shower rooms assume a loo ...).

I know that the US is different but in UK a 'modern' house is less than 40 years old, an 'old' house is 200-300 years old - the rest fall somewhere in between.
Insanity Rules!

Tom Ligon
Posts: 1871
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:23 am
Location: Northern Virginia
Contact:

Post by Tom Ligon »

Skipjack, the house you bought in the 80's may be just fine. We were shoping then and energy efficiency was a big deal then. Some homes were 2x6 construction with R19 insulation. Homes now rarely are built that well.

Captain B, I scored my big Revere copper hot water panels from a failed dealer, his barely used demo system, for about $0.20 on the dollar of what their new prices was.

I've been hitting the internet for various deals for the stuff I've bought lately, just seeing what the search engines turn up. I'm doing a "roll-your-own" uniquely designed system for my own peculiar needs. I'm breaking a lot of typical design rules and it may not work out, so don't follow my lead. You can contact me off-line if you want some specifics. My name as one word at tomligon dot com.

My criteria are for the heating system to use no fossil fuels and keep the place from freezing in the worst weather, with a wood stove for backup if I am actually there. The place must handle 4-day power outages and use minimal line power. The panels are mounted low and circulation is low-energy but not drainback, so must be propylene glycol solution. On top of which I have no storage tank and a unique heat dump for excess heat. If it works I'll post the results on tomligon dot com. If not I will be very quiet about it.

KitemanSA
Posts: 6179
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:05 pm
Location: OlyPen WA

Post by KitemanSA »

Tom,
Please write up your experiences and submit to "Home Power" magazine. Its a fun read and a nice place to show off your system. It is one of the few I still subscribe to.

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