10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

parallel · Post by **parallel** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:21 pm

Ladajo,
What you repeatedly fail to grasp is that there is no proof either way.
I happen to think the odds are in Rossi's favor, for various reasons already explained. You don't.
The fact remains there is no proof yet, so people should wait a bit and not make libelous accusations.

Joseph Chikva · Post by **Joseph Chikva** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:33 pm

parallel wrote:The fact remains there is no proof yet, so people should wait a bit and not make libelous accusations.

This:

ladajo wrote:Looks like shyte, smells like shyte, tastes like shyte, odds are...it is shyte.

is not "libelous accusation" but this is true.
Smell, taste and enjoy.

ladajo · Post by **ladajo** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:39 pm

You say there is no proof either way, then state that you think the evidence given (proofs) are in his favor. Fair enough, you are obviously entitled to think for yourself.
But you can not say there is no proof/evidence, and then make a judgement on it.

I, as you well know, am arguing that physical evidence to date indicates that Ecat is not what Rossi claims it to be. To be more specific, the lack of physical evidence to support Rossi's claims as well as the numerous outright inconsistancies in Rossi's claims and actions.

Again, in the here-to-fore unlikely (my opinion) event that Ecat turns out to be viable, it still remains that Rossi has told many lies. If you think that is libelous of me or others to point that out, I suggest you look up the legal definition of libel.
I have and can continue to show Rossi's own words contradicting his own words in both concrete measure as well as intent. The now famous, "Ladajo Rossiquote-a-thon" was not a complete listing by any means. And Rossi just keeps on rolling with more.

rcain · Post by **rcain** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:43 pm

Parallel, i feel i too must rejoin the prognosis of Ladajo, Joe, et al. You are being rubbish.

In short, you should be ashamed of yourself, for flying in the face of 'reason' itself. And for what? Holding onto a 'previous position' on the matter. Surely, you can see, it has simply become a matter of 'pride' to you. Nothing more.

I suggest you admit it. Change your stance. And put your good brain to some more interesting topic than the 'snake oil' this mad Italian CROOK.

(just thought i'd try and stir things up a bit there. sorry about that. got carried away).

ScottL · Post by **ScottL** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:06 pm

Yeah, no evidence, because when the Technical Research Institute of Sweden says you've measured your input power incorrectly by a factor of 3, we should just ignore them. If Rossi can't measure electrical input correctly now, what makes you think he ever measured it correctly? Hell, he still released the report with his measurements in the face of being corrected. The game is over man, let it go.

GIThruster · Post by **GIThruster** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:23 pm

I think these continued attacks on parallel are the result of some misguided thinking.

There is no evidence that the mistake in the power input (which was a mistake by less than a factor of 2) is a common one to make that any non-EE could easily make. If you're not an EE, you'd likely believe you could just put a meter on and take a reading, which you cannot only because of the special circumstances created when the current and voltage are not in phase.

And really the bullying of parallel is uncalled for. The posts here that have nothing to offer except a passerby take a swing at parallel are childish bullying that needs to stop.

paperburn1 · Post by **paperburn1** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:42 pm

GIThruster wrote:I think these continued attacks on parallel are the result of some misguided thinking.

There is no evidence that the mistake in the power input (which was a mistake by less than a factor of 2) is a common one to make that any non-EE could easily make. If you're not an EE, you'd likely believe you could just put a meter on and take a reading, which you cannot only because of the special circumstances created when the current and voltage are not in phase.

And really the bullying of parallel is uncalled for. The posts here that have nothing to offer except a passerby take a swing at parallel are childish bullying that needs to stop.

Your right about one thing we are all taking swings at parallel and we should tone it down a bit before we say something we might regret. Right or wrong he has his opinion and he is welcome to it.

tomclarke · Post by **tomclarke** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:48 pm

small correction. This was reported as 2-3 times. True - the RMS issue gives up to 2X, but there are in addition other ways to get lower than reality readings.

GIThruster wrote:I think these continued attacks on parallel are the result of some misguided thinking.

There is no evidence that the mistake in the power input (which was a mistake by less than a factor of 2) is a common one to make that any non-EE could easily make. If you're not an EE, you'd likely believe you could just put a meter on and take a reading, which you cannot only because of the special circumstances created when the current and voltage are not in phase.

And really the bullying of parallel is uncalled for. The posts here that have nothing to offer except a passerby take a swing at parallel are childish bullying that needs to stop.

ladajo · Post by **ladajo** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:51 pm

I think these continued attacks on parallel are the result of some misguided thinking.

I do not feel I have been attacking Parallel. I have been attacking his position.

As for "misguided thinking"....Really?

Not deviating from a pf of 1.0 is quite a trick. Anyone who works in AC anything knows this. The grid itself, by design, seeks a .8pf, as does all AC load attached to it. By design. Leading and lagging is a fact of life in AC world, and for good reason. Anyone who proclaims any knowledge of test/measurement or the wide realm of EE should know this.

It is basic knowledge to understand real v. apparent power.

Granted, Rossi may not know it given he is a demonstrated idiot when it comes to techinical work. However, given his past historical (failed) attempts to work in the power generation industry, one may assume that he has at least heard of the idea. But then that just means he has once again demonstrated he does not know what he is doing.

For goodness sakes, he claims ownership of a company that makes Diesel Generators with "Sound Enclosures", and every generator sold has a label plate on the side stamped with "pf .8"

Now if you want to talk along some real fun lines, of which I am sure Rossi has not a clue, we can talk real and reactive loading and artificially induced balance shifts to conduct brush ring maintenance, analog meter back feed, and other such adventures that are possible with circulating reactive currents. One of my personal favorties being the possibility of using a vintage water turbine generator to back feed the commercial grid with reactive power, thus running the analog power meter slower or even backwards and the resultant power bill as well. Not that I have ever done that for real. Ever. At all. Ever.
Another big adventure I had in high energy power was the harmonic distortion induced by dwonstream switching power supplies. To the point such that it was smoking the 24KV feeder interrupts up the road at the city bunker. Had to buy a few breakers and fuses, and then ended up springing to replace them with solid state switching as well as installing a high power filter rig (caps) to smooth out the upstream to something more resembling .8 vice the literal caucaphony of harmonics that completely wrecked any semblance of normal.
Of this stuff, I am sure Rossi knows not. He probably can barely explain the difference between AC and DC.

ScottL · Post by **ScottL** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:55 pm

GIThruster wrote:I think these continued attacks on parallel are the result of some misguided thinking.

There is no evidence that the mistake in the power input (which was a mistake by less than a factor of 2) is a common one to make that any non-EE could easily make. If you're not an EE, you'd likely believe you could just put a meter on and take a reading, which you cannot only because of the special circumstances created when the current and voltage are not in phase.

And really the bullying of parallel is uncalled for. The posts here that have nothing to offer except a passerby take a swing at parallel are childish bullying that needs to stop.

It was closer to a factor of 3 (2.9 something). Anywho, Parallel has had his chance to be objective, but not once has he been critical of Rossi. He has never presented in an objective or impartial manner and he has made no attempt to hide his position. That's fine to hold one's position, but don't link and run or change topics when you've been called on your BS. His posts always start with some link or quote followed by "Rossi said," and I ask you where is the "I think based on this..." comments? Where is the critical thinking? Even now he's started posting about EEStor again. I get his optimism, that's great. We're all hoping for a revolution, but excuse some of us for wanting science-backed evidence before we jump on the bandwagon.

parallel · Post by **parallel** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:02 pm

ladajo,

You say there is no proof either way, then state that you think the evidence given (proofs) are in his favor. Fair enough, you are obviously entitled to think for yourself. But you can not say there is no proof/evidence, and then make a judgement on it.

I said their was no (solid) proof.

Your libelous colleagues often make judgements even without evidence let alone proof. Of course you can make judgements based on evidence.
I hope Rossi has better things to do commercializing E-Cats, but he would have no trouble at all nailing some here for libel.
It is basically a waste of time to respond to their nonsense, often written in appalling English. I wonder if some of them even finished school.

ladajo · Post by **ladajo** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:12 pm

Yes, I agree, nothing concrete thus far associated with Ecat other than Rossi lies.

It is unfortunate that Ecat is attached to Rossi. It would be nice to see some real testing and evaluation rather than wacky marketing and promotional attempts.

But as you said, time will tell. In the mean time, I would like to ask if you now finally see that the "SGS Certification" was not a Certification as Rossi presented it?

Betruger · Post by **Betruger** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:13 pm

rcain wrote:flying in the face of 'reason' itself. And for what? Holding onto a 'previous position' on the matter. Surely, you can see, it has simply become a matter of 'pride' to you. Nothing more.

I suggest you admit it. Change your stance. And put your good brain to some more interesting topic than the 'snake oil' this mad Italian CROOK.

This is the same pattern as what got him banned from Ars Technica forums. The quixotic insistence on "libel" etc, also symptomatic.

GIThruster wrote:continued attacks on parallel

Uh huh. It's attacking to type words on a keyboard to point out that some statement made in text on the internet by someone you don't know and don't pretend to know (like e.g. me: I'll easily say I think Parallel got banned from Ars Technica for acting like he's acting here and now, but not pretend to know what's going on in his noggin to cause this) DOES NOT ADD UP or is not consistent with reality.

Again the incongruent if not outright paradoxical behavior: Parallel and others like GIThruster making a big deal about some supposedly scapegoated innocent genius or other, while at the same time going completely off the rails when someone points out that "martyr" is wearing no damned clothes.

bullying of parallel is uncalled for

No such thing.

Get a grip. I wonder what Chris Bergin has to say about your grandiloquent behavior in these kinds of scientifically contentious discussions. It sure seems like both of you have, regardless the reasons, a knack for exceeding the boundaries of polite dialog, even in fairly tolerant environment.
That's not exaggerating either.... For ex. QuantumG is at least as acerbic and yet has not been banned like you or e.g. Mike Snyder aka OV-106 who on the other hand really went off the deep end like you and Parallel are starting to.

Compare with Tom Clarke or Ladajo who from the very center of these same discussions always stay almost perfectly calm and pertinent. And yet ... there's Parallel's repeated bombast in reply to nothing but strictly topical arguing much like Dr Prins did, in spite of whatever good and truthful intentions he had. As irreverent as Ladajo's arguing might sometimes be, it's also perfectly germane and never disingenuous unlike yours and Parallel's endless indignant pretension of the contrary.

parallel wrote: often written in appalling English. I wonder if some of them even finished school.

in cauda venenum.
English is a second language to me and I don't take myself too seriously. What's your excuse?

GIThruster · Post by **GIThruster** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:43 pm

How could anyone take this opportunity to launch personal attacks on people for no purpose, except to show he can do whatever he wants?

Betruger · Post by **Betruger** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:20 pm

Show me where I attacked anyone. Everything I said above is factual. There is no implied meaning. Only pointing out historical patterns at face value.

Have I lied about Parallel getting banned from Ars Technica? I only know about it from his own saying so.
You banned from NSF? I actually don't know how it happened, except I'd guess it probably had to do with arguments started over Mach Effect.
Prins? Well I think it's fair to say that despite some signs of genuine magnanimity, he both barks and bites without restraint, even people who only try to help.

Regardless the why's, you guys have trouble keeping yourselves in check and it gets you kicked out of discussions. All I will say is that it does no good for your credibility when you have this history PLUS the current lack of impartiality and composure over some guy you've never met who himself has seriously dubious business record, and to top it all off, when the current discussions are over - and this is fact - effectively nothing but vaporware. Everything hangs on Rossi's word and Rossi's word is worthless.

The most absurd thing is that none of your antics do anything to illuminate the true substance of the topic: what is going on in Rossi's black boxes? It's all a distraction from brass tacks for no other purpose than to satisfy whatever personal quirks push you guys go so over the top.