10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

[KitemanSA]

[/quote]

What's your tipping point? Clearly we've all hit ours.

That said, I suppose there was also a tipping point when I felt that it was no longer possible to give Rossi the benefit of the doubt or take him at all seriously.That happened last January or thereabouts, ... when the Florida BRC report appeared in which Rossi claimed that there was no factory in Florida,

This is a false statement. Are you a liar or merely mistaken?

and his E-Cat doesn't produce nuclear reactions anyway;

When did he ever state this? I know he stated several times that it produced no radiation (clarified to "above background values"). I know he stated it produces no radioactive waste.

and when it was discovered that Rossi's 1MW E-Cat, which he supposedly sold to an unknown customer, was still sitting in the same place where it had been on the day of his big demo.

Is it? You know this how? Oh, you said "was". Was for how long? Do you know the details of the first unit contract? Do you know what the delivery FOB location was? Do you know what the restock provisions were? Until you do, how does the physical location of the first unit give you ANY info proving a lie?

It's not too hard to come up with logical excuses for the above and similar occurences. Making excuses that aren't incredibly lame (i.e. violate the law of parsimony), on the other hand....

It is ever so easy to rationalize a prejudice; to gather misstatements of fact and call them TRUTH in support of your own self deception.

[Joseph Chikva]

Rossi turisto - obliko morale.

[KitemanSA]

Rossi is a fraud, or mentally ill. He swindled the DOD, and never came back with his magic boxes when they didn't work.

"Swindle" is a prejudiced word. Do you have ANY indication other than your own prejudice that he had an intent to defraud? No? Then it would be more honest to state that his research did not bear fruit.

He stuck the Italians with a magic oil making process that...didn't.

Actually, it did, but not as well as hoped. And he pissed off politically connected folks while trying to improve things. They shut him down.

Rossi seems to have an excess of confidence in his own ability to take what he thinks he sees as a lab scale phenomenon and industrialize it. MANY venture capitalists lose money thru this situation with hundreds (thousands?) of people and companies every year. Thems the breaks. But without such folk, no progress would be made. Are such folks "liars"? Nope, just chasing a dream that can't be industrialized... yet(?)

Fortunately for rossi, as this board demonstrates, a sucker is, truly born every minute.

Even more fortunately however, is that the vast majority of groups are now not giving him any money and soon he shall vanish off-- until we hear about Rossi's newest "invention." Which shall again oddly not produce any results when being observed by scientists and will also, softly and silently vanish away.

If he fails again, he will vanish soon enough. But fortunately for Rossi there are folks like you that keep him "in the news" as any publicity is good publicity.

[Joseph Chikva]

Provide please one proof of any Rossi's claim.

[KitemanSA]

As far as I know, there are none.

[Joseph Chikva]

As far as I know, there are none.

Ha-ha-ha

[ladajo]

Rossi is a fraud, or mentally ill. He swindled the DOD, and never came back with his magic boxes when they didn't work.

"Swindle" is a prejudiced word. Do you have ANY indication other than your own prejudice that he had an intent to defraud? No? Then it would be more honest to state that his research did not bear fruit.

He stuck the Italians with a magic oil making process that...didn't.

Actually, it did, but not as well as hoped. And he pissed off politically connected folks while trying to improve things. They shut him down.

Rossi seems to have an excess of confidence in his own ability to take what he thinks he sees as a lab scale phenomenon and industrialize it. MANY venture capitalists lose money thru this situation with hundreds (thousands?) of people and companies every year. Thems the breaks. But without such folk, no progress would be made. Are such folks "liars"? Nope, just chasing a dream that can't be industrialized... yet(?)

Fortunately for rossi, as this board demonstrates, a sucker is, truly born every minute.

Even more fortunately however, is that the vast majority of groups are now not giving him any money and soon he shall vanish off-- until we hear about Rossi's newest "invention." Which shall again oddly not produce any results when being observed by scientists and will also, softly and silently vanish away.

If he fails again, he will vanish soon enough. But fortunately for Rossi there are folks like you that keep him "in the news" as any publicity is good publicity.

Kite,
1. Did you read the Florida BRC Report?

2. You claim Rossi may have been doing "Research" and it did not pay off for the Army. That would indicate you have not read any of the Army documentatoin about that project. Have you?

3. All indications on publically available documentation indicates Rossi's Magic Waste to Oil process did not work. Do you have something that shows it did as you now claim?

4. Show me an official document from an Italian Court that proves Rossi was "aquited" for his role in the waste recovery scam. Wikipedia does not count, nor does Rossi's personally written bio.

5. Are you aware that Rossi was convicted on other fraud counts?

Prove these claims of yours as correct Kite. Evidence has been presented to show that Rossi has lied and frauded on a number of occasions. Yet you dismiss them out of hand without showing counter proof, and in a number of cases not seeming to actually look at the evidence, just waving your hands and sounding off like some cheap shyster, "Rossi didn't mean that, here's what he really meant to say...".
It is like you are arguing that while Rossi may have posted in his blog that, "The sky is blue", what he really said could have meant many other things that the end result is he did not mean the "sky is blue".

Rossi to the blogging public, "I have factories in the US, I have a factory in Florida."
Rossi to Florida BRC, "I have no factory in Florida, I have no Factories in the US"

Read the report. "The sky is blue".

[ScottL]

He has a history of criminal activity (documented fact)....

Liar!

I believe he was convicted on 3 seperate events, 1 of which he may have been cleared, the others, he served time. This is indeed documented very well in several Italian papers. Keep digging that hole though, you're doing fine.

[KitemanSA]

Replies in red.

Rossi is a fraud, or mentally ill. He swindled the DOD, and never came back with his magic boxes when they didn't work.

"Swindle" is a prejudiced word. Do you have ANY indication other than your own prejudice that he had an intent to defraud? No? Then it would be more honest to state that his research did not bear fruit.

He stuck the Italians with a magic oil making process that...didn't.

Actually, it did, but not as well as hoped. And he pissed off politically connected folks while trying to improve things. They shut him down.

Rossi seems to have an excess of confidence in his own ability to take what he thinks he sees as a lab scale phenomenon and industrialize it. MANY venture capitalists lose money thru this situation with hundreds (thousands?) of people and companies every year. Thems the breaks. But without such folk, no progress would be made. Are such folks "liars"? Nope, just chasing a dream that can't be industrialized... yet(?)

Fortunately for rossi, as this board demonstrates, a sucker is, truly born every minute.

Even more fortunately however, is that the vast majority of groups are now not giving him any money and soon he shall vanish off-- until we hear about Rossi's newest "invention." Which shall again oddly not produce any results when being observed by scientists and will also, softly and silently vanish away.

If he fails again, he will vanish soon enough. But fortunately for Rossi there are folks like you that keep him "in the news" as any publicity is good publicity.

Kite,
1. Did you read the Florida BRC Report? Yes

2. You claim Rossi may have been doing "Research" and it did not pay off for the Army. That would indicate you have not read any of the Army documentatoin about that project. Have you? No. But most folks seem to claim he defrauded the US military. Indictments please. Convictions? No? Who cares about the presumption of innocence. After all, he's just a WOP..

3. All indications on publically available documentation indicates Rossi's Magic Waste to Oil process did not work. Do you have something that shows it did as you now claim? All info I have on it is the it was a variant on thermal depolymerization (TDP), a process that has been demonstrated a LARGE number of times in the lab. But so far, despite dozens(?) of companies spending millions of dollars on it, still no viable commercial industry. Were all those people "liars" too?

4. Show me an official document from an Italian Court that proves Rossi was "aquited" for his role in the waste recovery scam. Wikipedia does not count, nor does Rossi's personally written bio. Sorry, no access to the Italian court documents. All I have is the referenced media report from Wikipedia, in Italian which didn't translate real well.

5. Are you aware that Rossi was convicted on other fraud counts? No. Show me please.

Prove these claims of yours as correct Kite. Evidence has been presented to show that Rossi has lied and frauded on a number of occasions. Yet you dismiss them out of hand without showing counter proof, and in a number of cases not seeming to actually look at the evidence, just waving your hands and sounding off like some cheap shyster, "Rossi didn't mean that, here's what he really meant to say...". Nope. Your claims are definite. "He IS a liar". Your proof is required.

Rossi to the blogging public, "I have factories in the US, I have a factory in Florida."
Rossi to Florida BRC, "I have no factory in Florida, I have no Factories in the US" I must have missed that in the BRC report. Please demonstrate. Oh, and if it turns out that basically he is reported by the BRC that he has no factories that produce radiologic materials, do I get to call YOU the liar? After all, what other factories would the BRC give a darn about? And as far as I recall, there were no Rossi QUOTES in the BRC report at all. Did I miss them? if not, how can you take hear-say as evidence?

[KitemanSA]

He has a history of criminal activity (documented fact)....

Liar!

I believe he was convicted on 3 seperate events, 1 of which he may have been cleared, the others, he served time. This is indeed documented very well in several Italian papers. Keep digging that hole though, you're doing fine.

Data please. The incident I know about, the fraud charges, where he served time, were subsequently overturned. No?

[ScottL]

Beating the dead horse some more since this has been posted numerous times before: (Rossi has been indicted or convicted for money laundering, false billing, tax fraud, and large-scale illegal dumping of hazardous waste.)

btw anyone saying tax evasion is a "sport" in Europe, that may be true, however; it's not true when its 2 tonnes of gold.

http://archiviostorico.corriere.it/1995 ... 2501.shtml

bad translation here:
http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... 2501.shtml

Multiply the troubles of ’entrepreneur past the traffic of waste that precious metal

Handcuffs bis Andrea Rossi

The Attorney Ariano Irpino accuses' inventor of the effluent oil "money laundering. sought the carrier of the band that would have moved armored car over 2 tons of 'gold

---PUBLISHED--- There are growing troubles of 'entrepreneur past the traffic of waste that precious metal TITLE: Way for a Rossi Andrea Ariano Irpino The Attorney accuses' inventor of the effluent oil "money laundering Wanted the carrier of the band that would have moved armored car more than 2 tons of 'gold ---MONZA. If so far believed to be in trouble and is' wrong. Andrea Rossi, who invented the procedure chatted to turn oil into the garbage and industrial waste, and 'much' in simple trouble. Of all the "tiles" that have rained down on him so far, the most 'heavy' arrived yesterday from Attorney Ariano Irpinia, in the province of Avellino. The investigating judge Vincenzo Caputo issued at the request of Deputy Rosario Baglioni, an 'order of arrest against him for conspiracy to money laundering of illicit origin and tax evasion.
The alleged criminal organization would be formed only by the 'creator of "liquid waste oil" and a person has disappeared for now, even by Michele Pizzato, Italian resident in Switzerland, a man trusted by Andrea Rossi, and in recent times, his mate "misfortune". A misfortune started a couple of weeks ago with the findings of an investigation conducted by Attorney Salvatore Bellomo Monza. At the end of its investigations, the prosecutor had asked for and received Monza 's arrest is that of Rossi's Pizza for the conspiracy to tax fraud and false billing. L 'charges related to the fictitious documentation that the two would have to certify the completed sale el' export of tens of kilos of 'gold, goods which Rossi has been working for almost two years as owner of' gold 'St. Andre' in Milan (companies 'working' s gold Luogosano in the province of Avellino). The two were therefore 'ended up in jail, hoping that the castle collapsed after allegations of interrogation. Error. Because 'the facts alleged by the prosecutor were confirmed in Monza' investigation of Ariano Irpino colleague, who for over a year was following much the same vein of 'investigation and that now, in his hypothesis of' charge, goes up to ' association aimed at money laundering. In a press release issued yesterday by the command group of the Guardia di Finanza di Avellino is spoken in detail of the new order of custody served in prison Rossi and pizza. It would, com 'was already' known by 'Monza investigation, that 46 billion bullion' Gold (2323 pounds well) would have passed the Italian border only on paper and, further, that the 'association to which he would head Rossi evaded taxes for 120 billion, with exports of false high-tech devices. The third wanted man and 'the carrier of the bullion, a character used to move up armored car. The transfer of funds to tax havens like Liechtenstein, the financiers argue that 'the articulation of' organization 'was such as to guess that' s goal was also the laundering of dirty money. --- PUBLISHED --- TITLE: This new indictment by Milan illegal disposal of toxic substances --- MILAN. Oil from the toxic waste? Maccio ', the 58 thousand tons of industrial sewage accumulated in the tanks of oil tankers Dragon' ex-refinery Omar Lacchiarella were and remain a cocktail of poisons absolutely can not be recycled. Andrea Rossi, the legal representative of the 'company and the liquidator Alessandro Reale have been indicted by the District Attorney of Milan for storage and illegal disposal of toxic waste. The Region has already 'decided to bring a civil, even to get the 50 needed 60 billion to clean up. 'S investigation was initiated on December 14' 93 after the seizure by the State Forestry Corps, a 'coming from the storage tank of Petrol Dragon Piossasco (Torino), found to download in the tanks of 10 tons of slurry with Lacchiarella very high percentages of PCB (polychlorinated biphenyl), a toxic substance and suspected carcinogen.

Giuseppe Fasano

[ScottL]

Liar!

I believe he was convicted on 3 seperate events, 1 of which he may have been cleared, the others, he served time. This is indeed documented very well in several Italian papers. Keep digging that hole though, you're doing fine.

Data please. The incident I know about, the fraud charges, where he served time, were subsequently overturned. No?

Thanks Kite, you made me do more research. Upon further research, the article cited for his conviction and the claimed overturn of his conviction says nothing about an overturn. It does mention he served 6 months of a 4 year sentence and was released where he promptly left for the U.S. According to many of the articles in the Italian archives, the people of his former city were just glad to be rid of him and didn't make a fuss when he was released. Something about the 60 billion dollars to properly clean up the environment.

[KitemanSA]

You dredge up a report from 1995. Well here is one from the same source and same author from 2004.

Recycling waste toxic Acquitted Andrea Rossi The pm had asked for a sentence of 3 and a half years Silvia underwire: polluter goes free MILANO - acquittal "because the fact there is no" for Andrea Rossi, who is accused of conspiracy to laundering of toxic and hazardous waste, stored in the years ' 80 to tonnes between Sevenoaks and dunvegan. For this story Rossi was arrested in 1995, when he claimed to be able to transform those waste oil.

[ScottL]

Alright let's do this yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh.......

January 8, 1992: Rossi indicted with 8 others, based on false invoices related to building a factory.
Italian | English

April 12, 1992: Rossi found guilty, sentenced to 4 months, suspended, for illegal transport, storage, but acquitted on illegal dumping.
Italian | English

March 24, 1993: Rossi sentenced to 8 months in prison, suspended, for violating the rules related to waste disposal.
Italian | English

March 9, 1994: Rossi's Petrol Dragon company forced to shut down over toxic waste issues. According to the story, there was no sign of Rossi actually converting waste into fuel, and one of his customers had claimed to be purchasing the fuel from Rossi well over a year after Rossi's plant had been shut down.
Italian | English

March 28, 1995: Another story describing the industrial waste left in silos by Rossi's company, Petrol Dragon, which had supposedly been converted into fuel.
Italian | English

March 29, 1995: Background of Rossi's jewelery business, and the charges of fraud related to phony gold shipments.
Italian | English

March 30, 1995: Rossi and four others accused of fake invoices for sale of tens of kilos of gold.
Italian | English

April 6, 1995: story about charges of money laundering and tax evasion related to false billing for the transfer of 46 billion ingots of gold (2,323 lbs.).
Italian | English

May 24, 1995: Rossi arrested for "criminal association aimed at the false invoicing and tax evasion."
Italian | English

January 25, 1996: Rossi complains about the loss of Petrol Dragon, claims innocence.
Italian | English

February 20, 1996: Preliminary hearing on gold fraud charges.
Italian | English

April 25, 1996: Article with Rossi's boasts of a process to convert waste into fuel, and description of the warehouses storing the unprocessed waste.
Italian | English

September 25, 1996: Article about criminal conspiracy to commit fraud and false tax invoices, along with five accomplices. Rossi claimed to have shipped "60 billion" (Lira?) of gold which didn't exist.
Italian | English

March 19, 1997: Rossi's conviction for illegal storage and disposal of toxic waste was upheld by the Court of Appeals.
Italian | English

May 23, 1997: Rossi sentenced to 2 years, 8 months for tax fraud. He created fictitious invoices between four companies he managed.
Italian | English

February 24, 1998: Two of Rossi's employees get plea deal.
Italian | English

October 23, 1998: Article about the cleanup efforts from the toxic waste sites left by Rossi's company.
Italian | English

June 1, 2000: Described as "Fugitive in the U.S.", Rossi is arrested in Rome for aggravated fraud and bankruptcy fraud" Accused of being "on the run" for about a year. Accused of leaving "dozens of stores in Northern Italy overflowing [with] industrial sewage."
Italian | English

October 20, 2000: Rossi sentenced to 8 years for fraudulent bankruptcy.
Italian | English

October 19, 2003: Article about how Rossi's customers are having to pay millions of Euros to pay for the cleanup of the toxic waste dump sites left by Rossi's company.
Italian | English

November 27, 2004: Rossi acquitted on toxic waste dumping charges. 41 million Euros were spent to clean up the waste dump left by Rossi's company.
Italian | English

All credited to Johnny B. for the research.

[KitemanSA]

Seems the format didn't work.

Nice editing job.