Talk-Polywell.org

ltgbrown wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 09, 2022 5:51 am

Is the energy cost of producing the helium-3 included in the energy input to Polaris when they say it will produce on the order of net 50 MW? And just how revolutionary is this method of producing helium-3? Could Helion be profitable just with that?

D-He3 is a much more energetic reaction. So in order to produce 50 MWe, they need to have a certain amount of He3 in the fuel mix.
But their fusion generators can still produce a small amount of net electricity from just fusing D-D. Demonstrating that is the goal for Polaris from what I understand.

Half of the D-D reactions produce He3 and half of them produce Tritium. The Tritium will eventually decay into more He3, but if I was them, I would just sell the Tritium and buy more He3 with that money, rather than storing it for years (half life of Tritium is 12.5 years) to get more He3 that way. Both cost about the same (about 30,000 USD per gram). He3 is currently slightly cheaper, but it is a roughly equal trade.
Helion can balance the density and temperature pretty freely. To the best of my understanding, they are going for a lower temperature and higher density, which favors D-D reactions. The downside is more neutrons, but they think they can handle that.
So the short answer is: Yes, they can just produce He3 and Tritium with an otherwise self sustaining machine and make money from selling the isotopes.
Aside from demonstrating net electricity and increasing their performance and rep rate, Polaris will actually do just that (and likely set aside some He3 for test runs with that as well).

Small Polaris progress update. Looks like things are going according to schedule, despite harsh weather and supply chain issues:

The Polaris facility is coming together! Structural roof installation is happening now.

https://twitter.com/Helion_Energy/statu ... 1930493954

For some reason, perhaps it is who are on the list of speakers, I am full of at best trepidation.

https://www.fusionindustryassociation.o ... 97a7613650

This is a clown show?

Andrew Holland is really good. He represents the private fusion startups in general. So he will likely (hopefully) have a good say.
Don't know any of the others, but they sound alright from the looks of it.
So let's hope this will be a good meeting.

What bothers me is that the companies themselves are not directly involved and they are the ones that really know what is going on. Further, none of the speakers has plasma physics insight, And where are the utilities? It looks like 100% politics.

I do appreciate your hopefulness on it.

mvanwink5 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:55 pm

What bothers me is that the companies themselves are not directly involved and they are the ones that really know what is going on. Further, none of the speakers has plasma physics insight, And where are the utilities? It looks like 100% politics.

I do appreciate your hopefulness on it.

I think it IS 100% politics. Essentially the job of the FIA is to deal with politicians and politics. This event is likely about lobbying for more government investment into fusion and more importantly a more favorable regulatory framework than the one advanced fission has (which is completely ridiculous).

Fusion is their only hope. I cut off a page of ranting to just that. The fusion companies know it and that is why they are pushing hard to fill the need.

You are 100% on target that the regulatory red tape is the whole story. Money is no longer the hold up.

Roof for Polaris is up, just in time before the next snow!
From my understanding, they are still very much on schedule, maybe even a little bit ahead!
They are not wasting any time!
https://twitter.com/Helion_Energy/statu ... 2936388608

One of the things I like about Helion, if they are successful, is that they have a way to manufacturer He3. This puts paid to all of the schemes of the "space" people to mine the moon for He3.

Nice, new article on Helion here:
https://www.heraldnet.com/business/can- ... m-everett/

Skipjack wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 02, 2022 8:38 pm

Nice, new article on Helion here:
https://www.heraldnet.com/business/can- ... m-everett/

From the article,

“We’ve already proven the key physics and the key engineering about fusion at that scale,” he said.

I struggle to understand the skeptical position, then, as gratuitously related in the article. And Polaris won't be operational until 2027?

mvanwink5 wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:45 am

And Polaris won't be operational until 2027?

Where do you see 2027? The article mentions 2024 for demonstration of slight net energy production. If I recall correctly, Polaris will start testing in 2023.

mvanwink5 wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:45 am

Skipjack wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 02, 2022 8:38 pm

Nice, new article on Helion here:
https://www.heraldnet.com/business/can- ... m-everett/

From the article,

“We’ve already proven the key physics and the key engineering about fusion at that scale,” he said.

I struggle to understand the skeptical position, then, as gratuitously related in the article. And Polaris won't be operational until 2027?

The skeptical position is essentially a quote of Daniel Jassby, a disgruntled, former fusion scientist at the TFTR who is now writing for the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, an openly anti nuclear (fission and fusion) group. I would not put any weight on what they say, but unfortunately newspapers always have to add the standard "opposing view" to appear unbiased.

The article says 2024 and that deadline has not changed from what I understand.
Polaris building might be a tiny bit behind schedule due to supply issues, union strikes and whatnot. I hear lots of price gauging going on as well. Pretty nasty stuff to deal with for poor David, right now
Looking at the pictures of the construction though, they still seem to be close enough to their original schedule. So I am not too worried.

Yes, 2024 is what we were expecting, I did not think that had changed, not sure how my eyes saw 2027 (before coffee?). Labor, inflation, COVID, a tough time to build.

Journalists are lower on my list than ambulance chasers. Unfortunately, and strangely, the public relies on them.

New Helion video is up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlNfP3iywvI