EMC2 Gets $8 million

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MSimon
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EMC2 Gets $8 million

Postby MSimon » Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:08 am

Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

KitemanSA
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Re: EMC2 Gets $8 million

Postby KitemanSA » Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:32 pm

OMG!! :D :D :D :D OMG!! OMG!! OMG!! OMG!! OMG!!
Is this ANOTHER 8 or 8 in lieu of 2? Heck, who cares, almost.
OMG!!

Skipjack
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Postby Skipjack » Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:33 pm

AWESOMENESS!!!

KitemanSA
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Postby KitemanSA » Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:36 pm

Chrismb,

Now come-on chrismb, ya GOTTA suppose that SOMETHING interesting is happening here.

OMG!!!

Solo
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Postby Solo » Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:23 pm

Sweet, Sweet, SWEET! :lol: :D :shock: $8mn is quite something. Congratulations Dr. Nebel & Co!

I'm really glad they are going to have the mandate to look at the basic physics of the thing. I think that's where Dr. B probably could have done things differently, since his background was in engineering. Without an understanding of the basic physics, it's difficult to take the right steps to ensure results when moving to a larger device. Of course, this can be overdone, as unforeseeable complications are more the norm in plasma physics than foreseeable ones...

Aero
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Postby Aero » Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:41 pm

Has anyone found the solicitation on FBO.gov? I'm sure the contract SOW would be interesting.
Aero

alexjrgreen
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Postby alexjrgreen » Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:52 pm

Well done, Rick. Very well done indeed. Please pass my congratulations on to your first class team.

Does this allow you to say a little more about how you got here?
Ars artis est celare artem.

MSimon
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Postby MSimon » Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:52 pm

Aero wrote:Has anyone found the solicitation on FBO.gov? I'm sure the contract SOW would be interesting.


There are links to the solicitation in the article I wrote.

Try this:

http://iecfusiontech.blogspot.com/2009/ ... truck.html
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

KitemanSA
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Postby KitemanSA » Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:00 pm

KitemanSA wrote: Now come-on chrismb, ya GOTTA suppose that SOMETHING interesting is happening here.
OK, so now that I have come down off my high, I can actually see a scenario where nothing has really changed between getting the $2M and the $8M. I can imagine a program officer saying "dang, its now Mid August and we still have $20M to spend by the end of September, what can we dump this on?" And someone points out that the AGEE project (whatever that is) SOW discussed the possiblilty of more $, "how bout dumping $8M of it there?" And the PEO says, "sure, why not?" A bit speculative, but plausible.

Of course, it could also relect the same basic scenario but with the added results from 8 months of work on the Jan09 $300k task making it a more reasoned decision.

Dr.N! Please tell us something! ... Unh, and make it useful, please.

chrismb
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Postby chrismb » Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:47 pm

KitemanSA wrote:Chrismb,

Now come-on chrismb, ya GOTTA suppose that SOMETHING interesting is happening here.

OMG!!!

That's a bit like arguing that ITER's funding must mean there is [10billion/5million=] 20,000 times more likely that something more interesting is happening in Cadarache than in Santa Fe.

You read my mind on the other bit. But, look, I'm always ready to encourage funding stuff. Also, and a for-example, if the contract stipulates the project must use US personnel and materials, then I'm with the old-style economists that think you can never really throw too much money at such a project.

It may even have a hint of something ominous - it might likely lead to a situation in which if it had been 2M then someone might still be claiming 'well, we didn't quite have enough money this time around', whereas permitting 2 or 4 times more budget than actually asked for as a minimum means it better damned work or that's that, done and well-and-truly cut off for good.

Rick has my sympathy, for two reasons: With that much budget it's like someone's really cranked up the spot-light power and you'd better be sure everything's polished to the hilt as there will be no escaping the glare of attention. He'll be putting in 26hours per day from now on to live up to what the value of that budget infers. Secondly, I'm not convinced the project can absorb and usefully expend that much capital. Diminuishing returns, &c.. Notwithstanding the possible reasons why the funding agency felt able to provide such a budget, which may be as Kiteman has suggested, but it has a feeling of calling a bluff to me. But, then, I'm the eternal challenger who'll always aim to get folks to rise to the occasion and prove me wrong! I would've been inclined to do the same, if I had control of a budget; "You really think this'll fly, and you want 2M? You want me to trust you? Right, here's 8M instead and you'd better be g'darn'd sucessful or you'll have let me down and no-one will ever want to put in another dime for this crazy project again."

We'll know in two years then, I guess, and there will be no excuse for a lack of budget this time around, I trust?

Professor Science
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Postby Professor Science » Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:56 pm

I wouldn't say that 8 million is so magical as to be able to resolve any problems, but if it's going to work it's far more likely to work on 8 million than 2. I look forward with baited breath.
The pursuit of knowledge is in the best of interest of all mankind.

drmike
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Postby drmike » Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:33 pm

Congrats to Rick and team! Good luck getting all the work in the proposal done on time. Should be a fun project.

Helius
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Nice!

Postby Helius » Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:40 pm

Best wishes to Dr. Nebel and team. Have fun, do great science, and stay well, all.

Robthebob
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Postby Robthebob » Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:41 pm

Come now Chrismb

All of us know that magnetic confinement schemes have always been slow to progress, because their machines has to be big. That's just how the physics works, and big machines cost a lot of money, especially high tech/high science machines.

In the past, magnetic confinement has been the most sucessful, and with that in mind, its evident that government officals or just people with money (as well as some physicists(especially plasma physicists who speicalize in toroidal magnetic confinement schemes)) had the impression that it requires loads of money in order for fusion science to progress. This seems to be merely true for magnetic confinement schemes. (dont know enough about the newer alternative schemes to really say)

You see, governement is funding toroidal magnetic confinement and indirectly funding fusion science. It's however false to think that we should compare progress with money across different types of schemes and projects. It's like saying, because a football team takes more money to organize, it's better than a tennis player. It may take more money to train more people, naturally, doesnt mean the team is better than the single player.

However, as far as the amount of funding polywell had been getting in the past, this is pretty nice. Let's just wait and see if the underdog can overcome a problem we've been working on for over 70 years.
Throwing my life away for this whole Fusion mess.

Aero
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Postby Aero » Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:47 pm

MSimon - Is this the same project, with new budget figures? But your original post implied new wording so I thought maybe their had been a contract mod, at least. ???
As for Rick's reaction over receiving $8M instead of $2M, note that we never knew, and still don't know how much Rick was asking for. But if the performance period was extended along with the money then its still business as usual without the need to stop work every year to chase down money. That by itself would be a big help to the project.
Aero


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