EMC2 Gets $8 million

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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MarkHB
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Post by MarkHB »

In which case, "Way to Go, Doctor Rick!"

I'm convinced this is good news, and have very high hopes for the future. Which, I have to say, is a strange and unfamiliar feeling, but one I could get used to.

ltgbrown
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Location: Belgium

Post by ltgbrown »

I'm convinced this is good news, and have very high hopes for the future. Which, I have to say, is a strange and unfamiliar feeling, but one I could get used to.
Me too. 8)
Famous last words, "Hey, watch this!"

just_an_observer
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:39 pm

Or you could just ask what they are up to

Post by just_an_observer »

Below is an email to Alan Boyle to see if he can get an update interview with Dr Nebel - I realize I asked for some things we'll probably not get answered, but if you don't ask, you don't recieve, and anyway I'm not afraid to be told No!; or at least I'm not afraid for Alan to be told No :) So here's hoping we'll get something more to tide us over.

Hi Alan,

Lot's of interesting info has come out over the last few months regarding contract updates for EMC2 since your last update back in March concerning EMC2's status and progress. Any chance you could do a follow up with Dr Rick Nebel? - if you're able to, could you also find out if he is under an NDA with their customer, or any type of agreement that restricts/limits his discussion of the project? It would be great to get a roadmap of where they are going if possible - Dr Nebel made the comment earlier this year "We will know in 2 years", so I think a lot of people would like to know some details (without giving away too much) about an operational/development plan for the next 2 years for EMC2, and the specific questions they are working on answering over these next 2 years that will enable them to know whether Polywell will work or not.

Thanks

Betruger
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Post by Betruger »

I reckon what he disclosed in the nextbigfuture article is all he could say. I'd be glad to be wrong, though.

Helius
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Location: Syracuse, New York

Post by Helius »

Dr. Bussard spoke up, and loudly, when the funds dried up and did not seem likely to resume.

Dr. Nebel's Silence is golden. :)

ladajo
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Location: North East Coast

Post by ladajo »

Dr Nebel seems to post about once a quarter. So it seems he is more or less due again timewise. But he also seems keen to jump in on a discussion here or there in the past if something grabs his interest.
For the value of his participation in the forum, I firmly believe that the discussions and debates here in theory and design have been both insightful and helpful on occasion. An open forum approach to science, such is taken here at talk-polywell is huge, it is a private wikipedia, with many diverse minds and backgrounds chewing on the topic.
I have followed this forum for a couple of years, and have learned a fantastic amount doing so.
Being a navy man myself, I can only imagine the internal politics going on regarding this technology. We, the navy are currently very limited in our ability to afford the navy we have. We are short in funds to fuel, man and maintain our units. We all live with it everyday. A technology like polywell is a game changer. Its introduction would invalidate a large base of technical and logistical support for our existing gas turbine, nuke and diesel systems. The transition will cause lots of issues and unhappiness both internal to the navy, and externally with corporate government contractors. There will surely be rice bowl protectionism.
The bottom line here is Dr Nebel must be sure the project produces valid useful data, or the wolves will kill the program in a heartbeat just to protect themselves and the golden goose. This started as a fringe wacky science thing, no worries to the larger system, now, it is now gaining momentum and showing potential, that is going to and probably already has made some folks nervous. Now is not the time that a seemingly innocuous post by Dr Nebel, regarding project status snowballs into a mission kill for the program because some lurking wolf grabs and spins it to ensure survival of his interest.
I do think this forum is useful and important, but let's allow Dr. Nebel to participate on his terms. He has gotten things this far, we need to trust and support him to follow through with a successful science program, be it may polywell succeeds or not.
In the mean time I hold my breath for an update like the rest of you, as well as occasionally take a peak at Famulus over at Prometheus Fusion Perfection to see if he has blown himself up yet. He is certainly doing more than I am to help polywell along, he is actually trying it instead of just talking about it.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

ladajo,

Excellent points.

If Famulus is doing something interesting post a link. (You can post them bare and they get converted). I don't check on him as often as I should.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Solo
Posts: 261
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:12 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Post by Solo »

Wow, he's still at it! I'm surprised and pleased.

kttopdad
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:14 pm
Location: Houston, Tx (NASA)

Post by kttopdad »

BenTC wrote:
kttopdad wrote:I've often wondered what value Dr. Nebel gets out of posting here. ... I wonder that Dr. Nebel has providee as much information as he has.
You imply that Dr. Nebel is a money grabbing bastard. Some people have higher ideals.
You miss my point, I believe. I'm saying that Dr. Nebel is a saint to have participated as much as he has on this forum. I can't see that he gains anything for his trouble beyond shop-talk with (a few) peers, and I see a fair amount of risk to him. I don't begrudge him his relative silence: While I wait with bated breath for his renewed participation, I appreciate that 1) he's probably *very* busy right now and 2) he's probably working under a severe communication embargo.

kttopdad
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:14 pm
Location: Houston, Tx (NASA)

Post by kttopdad »

zbarlici wrote:not that there are too many polywell forums either. This is THE forum dedicated to polywell fusion so naturally Dr. Nebel found himself posting here. There are other people here with merit, and if it weren`t true he wouldn`t bother with the forum. Anybody that heard about polywell a few years ago and took an interest would have found their way here. That`s the reason why Dr. Nebel i here, reason why everybody else is here. Why are you here?
Hmmm... That seems a rather negative reply to a question which had no malice intended. To answer your question, I'm here for the same reasons I suspect you (and everyone else) are: I'm intensely interested in the potential game-changer that Polywell represents.

As to the start of your post, I think you, too, are missing the point of my post. I didn't ask "why does Dr. Nebel post here," I asked "why does he post at all." It seems the risks of spilling too much outweigh the benefits of shop-talk with a few peers.

I definitely appreciate his posting, and this is the logical place to post, but I wonder at his sharing to the extent that he has. There are those who are active on this forum that have openly stated that they're interested in replicating EMC^2's results and competing with EMC^2 for market share. While I suspect there will be more than enough interest/money for everyone concerned, I don't see posting on this (or any) forum to be in Dr. Nebel's best interest.

That being said, I'm *awfully* glad that he does post on occasion.

Betruger
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Post by Betruger »

Doc N mentionned they considered, at least at some point, selling licensed turnkey reactors
rnebel wrote:One of the things we have been considering is selling a "turnkey" version of the WB-7. In this case we would design, build, license and deliver an operating Polywell, probably on the scale of the present machine. Operator training and tech support would also be part of the deal. The model is to use a plug and play concept where the user could substitute their own parts (electron sources, for instance) in an open architecture system. This is similar to what IBM did with the PC in the early 80s. It would give people who are interested in Polywells a chance to develop their own new patentable concepts and new companies without having to go through the entire learning curve that we have been on for the past several years. This struck us as a way to jumpstart the industry and get a lot of new ideas and people involved in Polywells. These devices could be funded through government grants (we have found a mechanism) or privately. I think we could do a turnkey machine for a ~ $500k-$1000k depending on how many people are interested. The idea would be for the government to make grants to institutions and then we would be able to competitively bid on providing the hardware. Ideally, I would like to see at least one Polywell in every Congressional district in the US. Since the cost is cheap, this is a tractable. Is this something you might be interested in?
and of course he's aware of any kind of gag order, so it's more rather than less likely that his posts here were carefully worded. As for competition, the above snip hints at a healthy polywell industry being a larger motivation than commercial dominance of EMC2.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

Betruger wrote:Doc N mentionned they considered, at least at some point, selling licensed turnkey reactors
rnebel wrote:One of the things we have been considering is selling a "turnkey" version of the WB-7. In this case we would design, build, license and deliver an operating Polywell, probably on the scale of the present machine. Operator training and tech support would also be part of the deal. The model is to use a plug and play concept where the user could substitute their own parts (electron sources, for instance) in an open architecture system. This is similar to what IBM did with the PC in the early 80s. It would give people who are interested in Polywells a chance to develop their own new patentable concepts and new companies without having to go through the entire learning curve that we have been on for the past several years. This struck us as a way to jumpstart the industry and get a lot of new ideas and people involved in Polywells. These devices could be funded through government grants (we have found a mechanism) or privately. I think we could do a turnkey machine for a ~ $500k-$1000k depending on how many people are interested. The idea would be for the government to make grants to institutions and then we would be able to competitively bid on providing the hardware. Ideally, I would like to see at least one Polywell in every Congressional district in the US. Since the cost is cheap, this is a tractable. Is this something you might be interested in?
and of course he's aware of any kind of gag order, so it's more rather than less likely that his posts here were carefully worded. As for competition, the above snip hints at a healthy polywell industry being a larger motivation than commercial dominance of EMC2.
I remember that. Could you provide a link back to the original?
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Betruger
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Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 11:54 am

Post by Betruger »

You could just search for it, it was posted here on the forum :) Gimme a sec, I'll dig it up.

Here it is..
viewtopic.php?t=490&highlight=turnkey

Giorgio
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Location: China, Italy

Post by Giorgio »

MSimon wrote:ladajo,

Excellent points.

If Famulus is doing something interesting post a link. (You can post them bare and they get converted). I don't check on him as often as I should.
He is, I am following him on daily basis.

It might be interesting to open a new section of the Forum also for his project where he could post his doubts/requests and we could offer our support.

I was lucky enough to stumble upon the forum in July 2007, and month after month the "quality" level of technical knowledge and ideas that are proposed has been increasing. In my opinion it would be a loss not to offer this board knowledge to someone that has the time and financial possibility to actually try to build a BFR and implement someof the ideas that have been proposed here in the last 2 years.


Giorgio.

Betruger
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Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 11:54 am

Post by Betruger »

I second that. Nothing to lose from it and possibly much to gain.

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