EMC2 Gets $8 million

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:39 am

BenTC wrote:
kttopdad wrote:I've often wondered what value Dr. Nebel gets out of posting here. I've often heard MSIMON talk about trying to get funding to build his own units, seemingly in direct competition with EMC^2. Since EMC^2 doesn't have robust patent protection at this point, I wonder that Dr. Nebel has providee as much information as he has. Am I missing something?
You imply that Dr. Nebel is a money grabbing bastard. Some people have higher ideals.

Also, there are other ways to gain status and income from technology.
http://catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral ... -cauldron/
(note, this is software based, so not all will relate to hardware)

I personally favor money grubbing bastardy. Why shouldn't Rick do his best to protect the interests of EMC2 shareholders?

zbarlici · Post by **zbarlici** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:39 am

not that there are too many polywell forums either. This is THE forum dedicated to polywell fusion so naturally Dr. Nebel found himself posting here. There are other people here with merit, and if it weren`t true he wouldn`t bother with the forum. Anybody that heard about polywell a few years ago and took an interest would have found their way here. That`s the reason why Dr. Nebel i here, reason why everybody else is here. Why are you here?

TallDave · Post by **TallDave** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:53 am

Heh, I don't think Nebel gets much of anything from it. I think he was just being nice. Maybe some engineering ideas from MSimon or lines of thought from Art or 93143.

(Maybe a little reciprocity, too. Some of us did lobby for WB-7 with what resources we could muster.)

As a programmer, I kind of wish Park and the Wray boys would show up now and then (or Skillicorn for that matter). Better things to do, I suppose...

BenTC · Post by **BenTC** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:39 am

MSimon wrote:I personally favor money grubbing bastardy. Why shouldn't Rick do his best to protect the interests of EMC2 shareholders?

Thats okay too. Like all technology developments, we would likely all benefit in the end. However the question was "I wonder that Dr. Nebel has provided as much information as he has?" Pure speculation on my part (yeah and a bit of an open-source soap box)

kurt9 · Post by **kurt9** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:16 pm

TallDave wrote:Heh, I don't think Nebel gets much of anything from it. I think he was just being nice. Maybe some engineering ideas from MSimon or lines of thought from Art or 93143.

(Maybe a little reciprocity, too. Some of us did lobby for WB-7 with what resources we could muster.)

As a programmer, I kind of wish Park and the Wray boys would show up now and then (or Skillicorn for that matter). Better things to do, I suppose...

Rick Nebel will most certainly benefit personally if the current experiments are successful. He will be in very high demand as a technical consultant to all of the groups who will try to build polywell reactors. After all, he and his team will be the people to have made it happen in the first place. At very minimum, he'll got lots of paided first class travel around the world. It will also be easy for him to raise finance for his next concept, whatever that may be.

KitemanSA · Post by **KitemanSA** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:47 pm

Dr Nebel hasn't posted anything in the past 3 1/2 months. Either he is WAY too busy, or he doesn't think he needs our cheerleading anymore so he doesn't need to stoke our interest. So sad.

Has anyone else noticed the quality of Polywell technical discussion slipping down hill recently? This almost seems to have become a FRC forum.

Betruger · Post by **Betruger** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:22 pm

Either he is WAY too busy, or he doesn't think he needs our cheerleading anymore so he doesn't need to stoke our interest.

My 2c - First things first.. That's research for Dr Nebel.

Has anyone else noticed the quality of Polywell technical discussion slipping down hill recently? This almost seems to have become a FRC forum.

It's just how it has to happen. The work is being done as we speak in LA, by people who so far have proven up to the task. Can't really ask for more.

CherryPick · Post by **CherryPick** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:53 am

MSimon wrote:I personally favor money grubbing bastardy. Why shouldn't Rick do his best to protect the interests of EMC2 shareholders?

Giving some positive information to the public, meaning us, is in interests of the EMC2 shareholders, because it creates political pressure to goverment funding. The commercial escalation of polywell will be faster if the people are already familiar with it.

Too much information brings the competitors in. Even telling that cheap fusion is possible does that.

Telling negative information, worries etc. works the other way round. It discourages competitors, funders and us.

Discussion forums are good places to do planned leaks to promote polywell as well as other things on earth.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:51 am

CP says:

Giving some positive information to the public, meaning us, is in interests of the EMC2 shareholders, because it creates political pressure to goverment funding. The commercial escalation of polywell will be faster if the people are already familiar with it.

EMC2 gets those services for free without having to say a word. Why would he give other than the merest hint of encouragement?

BenTC · Post by **BenTC** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:20 pm

And meanwhile, with a gag order from the Navy, Dr Nebel has to sit silently on the sideline as we pick apart his principles.
my apologies.

Solo · Post by **Solo** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:00 pm

Personally, I've always been amazed and grateful that Dr. Nebel has been willing and able to comment as much as he has. I'm sure the silence is a result of sheer busyness right now: you'd be busy too if you won an $8mn contract! That doesn't mean I can't hope for more tidbits sometime though!

I'm staying tuned!

kurt9 · Post by **kurt9** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:11 pm

Solo wrote:Personally, I've always been amazed and grateful that Dr. Nebel has been willing and able to comment as much as he has. I'm sure the silence is a result of sheer busyness right now: you'd be busy too if you won an $8mn contract! That doesn't mean I can't hope for more tidbits sometime though!

I'm staying tuned!

I don't expect to hear from him until they determine that the polywell will definitely work or not. They certainly have the funding to what they need to do. No doubt they are very busy doing that work now.

When is the website section for John Slough's FRC going to be setup? Risk management standpoint alone suggests we should discuss and promote his idea as well.

TallDave · Post by **TallDave** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:33 pm

kurt9 wrote:
TallDave wrote:Heh, I don't think Nebel gets much of anything from it. I think he was just being nice. Maybe some engineering ideas from MSimon or lines of thought from Art or 93143.

(Maybe a little reciprocity, too. Some of us did lobby for WB-7 with what resources we could muster.)

As a programmer, I kind of wish Park and the Wray boys would show up now and then (or Skillicorn for that matter). Better things to do, I suppose...
Rick Nebel will most certainly benefit personally if the current experiments are successful. He will be in very high demand as a technical consultant to all of the groups who will try to build polywell reactors. After all, he and his team will be the people to have made it happen in the first place. At very minimum, he'll got lots of paided first class travel around the world. It will also be easy for him to raise finance for his next concept, whatever that may be.

Of course. I was referring to what Nebel got from posting here.

Hopefully he'll stop by again at some time and let us know how the new machine is doing. The B scaling will be very very important.

TallDave · Post by **TallDave** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:37 pm

KitemanSA wrote:Dr Nebel hasn't posted anything in the past 3 1/2 months. Either he is WAY too busy, or he doesn't think he needs our cheerleading anymore so he doesn't need to stoke our interest. So sad.

Has anyone else noticed the quality of Polywell technical discussion slipping down hill recently? This almost seems to have become a FRC forum.

Because SOMEONE was supposed to break into EMC2 and install a webcam for us, but never did...

Tom Ligon · Post by **Tom Ligon** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:12 pm

My own experience suggests Dr. Nebel simply has been told by his sponsors to refrain from public discussion of the subject. I suspect the instructions from them are anything but vague. Speculate on their motives if you wish, but when the people providing millions say to hush up, most people will hush. I would not read any more in it than that. It does not mean they are succeeding, and it does not mean they are failing. It means the release of information is in the hands of the people with money.

Dr. Bussard spoke up, and loudly, when the funds dried up and did not seem likely to resume.

I suspect the cheerleading is still appreciated.