EMC2 Gets $8 million

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

Skip,

Hey, we agree on something again!

Except on patience. I like to tell people "Impatience is a virtue."

cuddihy
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Post by cuddihy »

KitemanSA wrote:
KitemanSA wrote: Now come-on chrismb, ya GOTTA suppose that SOMETHING interesting is happening here.
OK, so now that I have come down off my high, I can actually see a scenario where nothing has really changed between getting the $2M and the $8M. I can imagine a program officer saying "dang, its now Mid August and we still have $20M to spend by the end of September, what can we dump this on?" And someone points out that the AGEE project (whatever that is) SOW discussed the possiblilty of more $, "how bout dumping $8M of it there?" And the PEO says, "sure, why not?" A bit speculative, but plausible.

Of course, it could also relect the same basic scenario but with the added results from 8 months of work on the Jan09 $300k task making it a more reasoned decision.

Dr.N! Please tell us something! ... Unh, and make it useful, please.
FAR and Navy procurement rules -- China Lake can procure for $2 Mil by themselves but have to go up to NAVAIR for approval for the $8 Mil. That & the associated paperwork on both sides likely account for the significant time lapse between the last Nebel comments and this award.

Tom
Tom.Cuddihy

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Faith is the foundation of reason.

choff
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Post by choff »

Excellent, finally some fiscal breathing room.
CHoff

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

A comment I got on the announcement:
My greatest confidence in Polywell is the fact that the guys doing it are confident enough in their work that they aren't trying to turn it into an indefinite taxpayer funded jobs program.
http://www.classicalvalues.com/archives ... ets_t.html
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Skipjack
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Post by Skipjack »

Except on patience. I like to tell people "Impatience is a virtue."
I like that one.
In Austria we say "das Spiel lebt von der Geschwindigkeit". That means as much as "the game lives from speed".
This is one of the experiences I had in my carreer as a production leader and project manager. If you loose momentum because of delays (e.g.because the client is lagging with something), the project looses unproportionally more time than the original delay.
I think there is a lot of merrit in speed. If things take to long, then team members leave, start to concern themselves with other things, or even die, things get forgotten over time, motivation is lost, interest is lost, momentum is lost. Even if you take note of everything and make sure everything is documented, things will get forgotten. "Why was it again that we decided to do it that way, 3 years ago?".
Just think about it: Bussards death resulted in a big loss for Polywell (no offense against Dr. Nebel as he is doing a really awesome job, but he can only follow Bussard, not replace him). Still it Polywell is moving much faster than ITER (at least at the moment).
One of my biggest gripes with ITER is that it is taking to long. Heck, many of the scientists that are working there will retire before that thing is fired up even once, provided it is ever finished anyway.

So more funding for Polywell is good, I hope it will be used to speed things up a bit, or at least to keep the momentum going and to prevent further delays.
Sorry for the little drift in subject...

chrismb
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Post by chrismb »

Skipjack wrote: I like that one.
In Austria we say "das Spiel lebt von der Geschwindigkeit". That means as much as "the game lives from speed".
This is one of the experiences I had in my carreer as a production leader and project manager. If you loose momentum because of delays (e.g.because the client is lagging with something), the project looses unproportionally more time than the original delay.
Thanks for that! I couldn't agree more, both in my own projects but also those where I'm supporting other clients. So I'll keep that saying handy for when our German clients are a bit slow to get back to us with kit and information we need to progress their jobs for them!!

KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

MSimon wrote:
TallDave wrote:I'm guessing this money only covers one machine (WB-8 ) and the design for WB-9.
What do you think Simon? 12 .8T magnets plus a vacuum chamber to fit them, assembly, testing... that sounds like about $8-10 mil to my inexpert ears.
I figured 10 million for seven 3T SC magnets, power supplies, and a shield bldg. plus an operating budget. So $8 mil may be right for .8T pulsed magnets.
Hmm. That suggests that if Dr.N. has gotten some investment from the magnet source (low or no cost used magnets) he may be able to pull off your 3T SC machine. Hmmm.

KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

cuddihy wrote:FAR and Navy procurement rules -- China Lake can procure for $2 Mil by themselves but have to go up to NAVAIR for approval for the $8 Mil. That & the associated paperwork on both sides likely account for the significant time lapse between the last Nebel comments and this award.
Does anyone KNOW whether the original $2M was ever actually awarded?
For the prior $300k, the only document that was published other than the solicitation was the sole-source justification. If the original $2M was awarded, there should have been a much more complicated SSJ (the cut off between types is $500k IIRC). Thus the SSJ for the $2M could still be in the works.

So, anyone?

Or am I mis-remembering?

PolyGirl
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Yes

Post by PolyGirl »

A little squeal of delight from down under.

Congratulations to Dr Nebel and his team.

Regards
Polygirl
The more I know, the less I know.

rcain
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Post by rcain »

Many congratulatoins to Rick, his team and the US Navy. He must have done a fine job in front of the review board.

Isn't it about time we heard from the man himself?

A result or two for us to chew over wouldnt go amiss either :)

cuddihy
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Post by cuddihy »

KitemanSA wrote:
cuddihy wrote:FAR and Navy procurement rules -- China Lake can procure for $2 Mil by themselves but have to go up to NAVAIR for approval for the $8 Mil. That & the associated paperwork on both sides likely account for the significant time lapse between the last Nebel comments and this award.
Does anyone KNOW whether the original $2M was ever actually awarded?
For the prior $300k, the only document that was published other than the solicitation was the sole-source justification. If the original $2M was awarded, there should have been a much more complicated SSJ (the cut off between types is $500k IIRC). Thus the SSJ for the $2M could still be in the works.

So, anyone?

Or am I mis-remembering?
Kiteman, the 2 million and the 8 million are under the same solicitation. So this was actually only for another 6 million, 8 total. Probably EMC2 didn't do the full design and cost-out until the 2 mil was awarded to pay for the design work.

If I know contracting offices (and unfortunately I'n intimately familiar), the COR had all the neccessary paperwork for the extra 6 million in by Jun and it was just awarded now because the bureaucracy moves that slowly.
Tom.Cuddihy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Faith is the foundation of reason.

Barry Kirk
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Post by Barry Kirk »

Congratulations to Dr. Nebel and team...

I know he didn't promise any pronoucnments for another 1 1/2 years, but it would be nice to hear something every now and then.

Even a keep alive message.

Best of luck.

bcglorf
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solicitation

Post by bcglorf »

The solicitation has one point that really has me interested:
3.2.1 Enhanced Ion Drive with PB11 (proton/boron 11): Based on the results of WB8 testing, and the availability of government funds the contractor shall develop a WB machine (WB8.1) which incorporates the knowledge and improvements gained in WB8. It is expected that higher ion drive capabilities will be added, and that a “PB11” reaction will be demonstrated.

Am I reading too much into this, or does it not say something very good about the results of WB7 that this solicitation expects a PB11 reaction to be able to be demonstrated with WB8? I know the language depends on the original results of WB8, but doesn't that still indicate a lot of confidence was gained from WB7?

MSimon
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Re: solicitation

Post by MSimon »

bcglorf wrote:The solicitation has one point that really has me interested:
3.2.1 Enhanced Ion Drive with PB11 (proton/boron 11): Based on the results of WB8 testing, and the availability of government funds the contractor shall develop a WB machine (WB8.1) which incorporates the knowledge and improvements gained in WB8. It is expected that higher ion drive capabilities will be added, and that a “PB11” reaction will be demonstrated.

Am I reading too much into this, or does it not say something very good about the results of WB7 that this solicitation expects a PB11 reaction to be able to be demonstrated with WB8? I know the language depends on the original results of WB8, but doesn't that still indicate a lot of confidence was gained from WB7?
I think you are right. The demonstration of pBj is huge!

And this got linkage from Instapundit:

http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/85120/
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

pfrit
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Re: solicitation

Post by pfrit »

bcglorf wrote:The solicitation has one point that really has me interested:
3.2.1 Enhanced Ion Drive with PB11 (proton/boron 11): Based on the results of WB8 testing, and the availability of government funds the contractor shall develop a WB machine (WB8.1) which incorporates the knowledge and improvements gained in WB8. It is expected that higher ion drive capabilities will be added, and that a “PB11” reaction will be demonstrated.

Am I reading too much into this, or does it not say something very good about the results of WB7 that this solicitation expects a PB11 reaction to be able to be demonstrated with WB8? I know the language depends on the original results of WB8, but doesn't that still indicate a lot of confidence was gained from WB7?
OK, this may be a stupid question, but squirrels DO talk to me and I DO what they say. Why are they using the term "ion drive capabilities"? That smells like something in a rocket engine's description. This is just for a power plant design at this point, right?
What is the difference between ignorance and apathy? I don't know and I don't care.

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