Dec 3 2009 Will fusion fade ... or finally flare up? (msnbc)

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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vernes
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Dec 3 2009 Will fusion fade ... or finally flare up? (msnbc)

Postby vernes » Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:34 am

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34260227/ns ... of_energy/

Laser fusion: On the rise
Inertial electrostatic fusion: Moving quietly
The dark horse in the fusion race is an approach known as inertial electrostatic confinement fusion, or Polywell fusion.
Magnetic fusion: Not so fast

TallDave
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Postby TallDave » Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:58 pm

Alan has said he would try to find out what was going on. The fact all he can say is this is interesting.

In the past, EMC2 Fusion's Richard Nebel has been able to describe the team's progress in general terms, saying that he was "very pleased" with the performance of an earlier test device. But now, with more Navy money on the line, Nebel has been constrained from saying anything about the project. The fact that the research is continuing, however, appears to indicate that the results have been promising enough to keep the Navy interested.


Pretty much as we suspected. It's extremely frustrating but the hard truth is we may not know much more until either the project is abandoned or a star is born in a Navy lab (I don't see how they can keep it under wraps if it works).

Solo
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Postby Solo » Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:34 pm

ah-hah, so that's what the deal is. Well, at least it sounds promising. But the silence is going to keep us biting our nails I assume. It's unfortunate for us, b/c we seem to have gotten out of our depth on the science and the only thing left for us to discuss is the news.

chrismb
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Postby chrismb » Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:51 pm

TallDave wrote:Alan has said he would try to find out what was going on. The fact all he can say is this is interesting.


Oh! Jeez!

Come on guys. Wake up out of these daydreams and smell the coffee!

All the Polywell prototypes will clearly end up with over-unity to input energy, because of the huge amount of bloomin' hot air they've generated!

Empty, vacuous and not even scientifically based speculations that interpret non-scientific speculations of speculations.

The party's almost over, everyone's drunk, the beer's all gone and the snacks munched. Start working out where you left your coat, 'cos it'll take you these last 6 1/2 months to figure out where it is, in your inebriated state. The stripper hasn't turn up and it seems too late for that to happen now. The host has disappeared into his own closed room and no-one's even sure he's there. All in all it looks like a dork's party for dorks, unless something swings through the door in the last few moments to liven it up. Probability of this?; approaching triple zero. I'll sip some coffee while I wait for my taxi!

Look at the last few dozen posts - all talking about what "no news" means!! Give it a rest!!

Tom Ligon
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Postby Tom Ligon » Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:12 pm

Chris,

Uh, we notice you are still hanging around too! :)

D Tibbets
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Postby D Tibbets » Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:58 pm

chrismb wrote:
TallDave wrote:Alan has said he would try to find out what was going on. The fact all he can say is this is interesting.


Oh! Jeez!

Come on guys. Wake up out of these daydreams and smell the coffee!

All the Polywell prototypes will clearly end up with over-unity to input energy, because of the huge amount of bloomin' hot air they've generated!

Empty, vacuous and not even scientifically based speculations that interpret non-scientific speculations of speculations.

The party's almost over, everyone's drunk, the beer's all gone and the snacks munched. Start working out where you left your coat, 'cos it'll take you these last 6 1/2 months to figure out where it is, in your inebriated state. The stripper hasn't turn up and it seems too late for that to happen now. The host has disappeared into his own closed room and no-one's even sure he's there. All in all it looks like a dork's party for dorks, unless something swings through the door in the last few moments to liven it up. Probability of this?; approaching triple zero. I'll sip some coffee while I wait for my taxi!

Look at the last few dozen posts - all talking about what "no news" means!! Give it a rest!!


Um, your analogy is off some. We are not actually in the club. We are in the line outside the club waiting to at least get a peek inside. While R. Nebel was occasionally opening the door a crack, we saw a few brief tantilizing views. Other than this , we are forced to entertain ourselfs outside. We cannot really say wheather the party is waxing, or dying, and we are too stuborn, or foolish to go home and wait for the write up in the morning newspaper. 8)

Dan Tibbets
To error is human... and I'm very human.

Betruger
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Postby Betruger » Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:45 pm

Chris - wager time.

TallDave
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Postby TallDave » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:09 pm

The stripper hasn't turn up and it seems too late for that to happen now.


You're confusing an absent stripper with one only doing private shows.

We're the guys who desperately want a peek but aren't on the list.

Meanwhile, some guy is saying "Bah, I bet there isn't even a stripper at all!"

MSimon
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Postby MSimon » Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:22 pm

TallDave wrote:
The stripper hasn't turn up and it seems too late for that to happen now.


You're confusing an absent stripper with one only doing private shows.

We're the guys who desperately want a peek but aren't on the list.

Meanwhile, some guy is saying "Bah, I bet there isn't even a stripper at all!"


Not only that. The stripper is in there doing extras for a fee and we can't even listen. Only imagine. Lap dances - or more? So we make up s***. And the worst part? There may be no stripper.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

doug l
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Postby doug l » Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:04 pm

There's gotta be a pony in here somewhere.

DeltaV
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Postby DeltaV » Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:58 pm

Data. DATA. DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Please, Rick! Just a few scattered points from parameter space, so we can argue about what hypersurface they're on, instead of politics...

[I knew politics was involved when I read about strippers.]

energyfan
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Postby energyfan » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:10 pm

nice to see some science-y minds using these examples

edit: since 2 years has become close to 6 months now, does that mean after 6 months we should move on ?

TallDave
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Postby TallDave » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:08 pm

energyfan wrote:nice to see some science-y minds using these examples

edit: since 2 years has become close to 6 months now, does that mean after 6 months we should move on ?


Certain things will be known then. It will depend on what those things are.

If the contract is extended, there is hope. If it looks like they're building WB-9, there is grounds for considerable cautious optimism (or wild optimism, if you must, I suppose).

If the contract isn't extended and Rick goes back to doing something else, the odds are a lot longer this will ever lead to economic fusion power. In that case, there's a good chance we will learn why.

TallDave
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Postby TallDave » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:14 pm

It occurs to me one reason this is being kept quiet is that the reaction to WB-9 among the general public could be premature. If a WB-9 contract happens, there is going to be a "OMG THEY'RE BUILDING A REAL FUSION REACTOR!!" response from, well, people like us. A failure could then be very painful and very public. They might well prefer to keep it under wraps until they are very, very sure they have something worth talking about, because if they start the project loudly claiming to solve the world's energy needs and don't deliver it will taint the whole fusion effort.

Rick has mentioned the Pons cold fusion debacle more than once as a cautionary tale. Take it to heart.

vernes
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Postby vernes » Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:13 am

What I want for christmas, is a talk-polywell.org exclusive polywell update, straight from the source...

with pictures :)


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