And some news(?) from Black Light Power

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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Skipjack
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And some news(?) from Black Light Power

Post by Skipjack »

Via nextbigfuture.com:
http://nextbigfuture.com/2009/12/blackl ... -2013.html

Not sure what to make of this. It seems like a lot of moving air to me, but I dont really see anything that makes me feel more comfortable with this.
I am still waiting for those first reactors to be reviewed by truly independend 3rd parties. So far all I see is more promises and some delays, again...
In contrast to the superconductor.org release from earlier, this "news" so far only moves them up higher on the BS scale, in my book...

scareduck
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Re: And some news(?) from Black Light Power

Post by scareduck »

Skipjack wrote:Via nextbigfuture.com:
http://nextbigfuture.com/2009/12/blackl ... -2013.html

Not sure what to make of this. It seems like a lot of moving air to me, but I dont really see anything that makes me feel more comfortable with this.
I am still waiting for those first reactors to be reviewed by truly independend 3rd parties. So far all I see is more promises and some delays, again...
In contrast to the superconductor.org release from earlier, this "news" so far only moves them up higher on the BS scale, in my book...
Why does anybody pay the slightest heed to these scam artists?

chrismb
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Post by chrismb »

So, is there anything to note from the fact that there is an academic at the Uni of Wisconsin who seems to be giving sustenance to this - that is to say, anything to note in any terms comparable to their fusion interests?

I note it comments on aggressive patent applications. I came across an appeal of theirs in the UK, where it was turned down and where they, apparently, conceded the reasons given. The appeals are printed up in the UK (I'll look for a link, I seem to recall it was a minor amusement to read).

Of course, there are, indeed, ortho- and para- spin isomers of hydrogen with different energy characteristics. It is quite possible to measure 'differences' between otherwise chemically similar quantities of hydrogen. This is known. But, to run against the laws of thermodynamics??.....

Skipjack
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Post by Skipjack »

I dont know what to make of it. Their science is absolutely not plausible to my layman self and their claims seem pretty much out there.
They do seem to have a lot of support from 3rd parties though and they do seem to have quite a lot of confidence that they will be able to show something in the neartime.
These are the only two reasons why I have not completely discarded them yet (in which case I would do this, every time they come up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNFmR6SC30o ).
We will see what happens by 2010. I have the feeling we are going to see some quite embarassing excuses soon.

djolds1
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Re: And some news(?) from Black Light Power

Post by djolds1 »

scareduck wrote:Why does anybody pay the slightest heed to these scam artists?
Because of the possibility they're right for the wrong reasons - i.e. that their technique works but the theory is fubar. Victorian rule of thumb engineering in the modern day can still lead to infrequent surprises.
Vae Victis

Skipjack
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Post by Skipjack »

Because of the possibility they're right for the wrong reasons
Yupp, one should say though:
Because of the decreasing possibility they're right for the wrong reasons
;)

Helius
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Post by Helius »

chrismb wrote:So, is there anything to note from the fact that there is an academic at the Uni of Wisconsin who seems to be giving sustenance to this - that is to say, anything to note in any terms comparable to their fusion interests?

I note it comments on aggressive patent applications. I came across an appeal of theirs in the UK, where it was turned down and where they, apparently, conceded the reasons given. The appeals are printed up in the UK (I'll look for a link, I seem to recall it was a minor amusement to read).

Of course, there are, indeed, ortho- and para- spin isomers of hydrogen with different energy characteristics. It is quite possible to measure 'differences' between otherwise chemically similar quantities of hydrogen. This is known. But, to run against the laws of thermodynamics??.....
I think it is safe to say that if there is *anything* that ever comes of cold fusion relating to Hydrogen, such as reverse beta decay, or other phenomenon that *might* be valuable, then black light power will be one of those that'll pile on in the ensuing lawsuit rumble.

The great comedy of the whole thing is all the explanations that come out before any phenomenon is well characterized. They don't know how it behaves, but they have an explanation for it.....

chrismb
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Post by chrismb »

Helius wrote: The great comedy of the whole thing is all the explanations that come out before any phenomenon is well characterized. They don't know how it behaves, but they have an explanation for it.....
Are you back talking about Polywell there, or are we still on the subject of Blacklight?

Skipjack
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Post by Skipjack »

Are you back talking about Polywell there, or are we still on the subject of Blacklight?
I all due fairness. The explanation for how the polywell works is not trying to rewrite known physics and/or chemistry (as is the case with BLP).
Last edited by Skipjack on Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kurt9
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Post by kurt9 »

Randall Mill's Hydrino theory is quite a stretch. I find the notion of fractional quantum levels for electrons to be quite unbelievable. Concepts such as the polywell are based on commonly accepted principles of physics. Randall Mill's is attempting to rewrite the entire book on physics. I am skeptical of his theories (and applications) to say the least.

TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

You know, Duane ran across something from Tom Ligon that I think might explain BLP's technology. They may actually be transmuting nickel by a process similar to one in palladium that may have fooled the cold fusion guys into think thinking they were fusing hydrogen.

viewtopic.php?p=27925&highlight=nickel+pons#27925
Pons and Fleishman were supposed to be partnering with another researcher who was much more low-key, and thought the phenomenon was something which had been know to nuclear physics for a while, and totally predictable from known physics. The basic notion was the nuclear reaction was between deuterium (or hydrogen, for that matter) and the nuclei of the metal electrodes. It was not DD fusion at all. If this is correct, all the experiments trying to prove DD fusion were a total waste of time.


Dr. Bussard concluded platinum and palladium were the wrong choices due to cost, and the same thing could be done with nickel. My understanding is the reaction has been seen with nickel electrodes.
viewtopic.php?t=717&start=0&postdays=0& ... light=lenr

http://www.fusor.net/board/view.php?bn= ... 1219096575

How weird is that?

Definitely more plausible than hydrinos.
Last edited by TallDave on Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

alexjrgreen
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Post by alexjrgreen »

**DELETED**
Ars artis est celare artem.

kurt9
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Post by kurt9 »

TallDave wrote:You know, Duane ran across something from Tom Ligon that I think might explain BLP's technology. They may actually be transmuting nickel by a process similar to one in palladium that may have fooled the cold fusion guys into think thinking they were fusing hydrogen.

viewtopic.php?p=27925&highlight=nickel+pons#27925
Pons and Fleishman were supposed to be partnering with another researcher who was much more low-key, and thought the phenomenon was something which had been know to nuclear physics for a while, and totally predictable from known physics. The basic notion was the nuclear reaction was between deuterium (or hydrogen, for that matter) and the nuclei of the metal electrodes. It was not DD fusion at all. If this is correct, all the experiments trying to prove DD fusion were a total waste of time.


Dr. Bussard concluded platinum and palladium were the wrong choices due to cost, and the same thing could be done with nickel. My understanding is the reaction has been seen with nickel electrodes.
viewtopic.php?t=717&start=0&postdays=0& ... light=lenr

http://www.fusor.net/board/view.php?bn= ... 1219096575

How weird is that?

Definitely more plausible than hydrinos.
This is way more believable than the Hydrino theory. Nonetheless, I will not be convinced that there is anything real with Black Light Power until they unveil an actual working generator.

I read a paper by a guy named Bush at Cal Poly (I think) in the early 90's that claimed Nickel-Hydrogen fusion reactions. I never saw any follow on work. So, I just assumed that here was nothing there.

TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

Well, I should point that, of course, if they are transmuting nickel, they are WAY overestimating the available power in a given BLP device.

kurt9
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Post by kurt9 »

TallDave wrote:Well, I should point that, of course, if they are transmuting nickel, they are WAY overestimating the available power in a given BLP device.
This is true.

As I said before, I find Randall Mill's claims unbelievable. More power to them if they actually come up with a working generator. Until then, I regard BLP with the same degree of skepticism as I do ZPE and "cold" fusion.

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