More Helion Energy news....

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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mvanwink5
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Re: More Helion Energy news....

Postby mvanwink5 » Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:37 pm

General Atomics
I think you meant "General Fusion."

I have heard LM is not a contender. Just what I have "heard," and since LM's efforts are darker than Tri-Alpha I am unsure it should be on a list anymore.

I think as the different dark horses make announcements money will start jumping; the worldwide rewards are truly Godzilla sized, a VC's Google dream. It is encouraging that the Slow-n-Dumb Stream News Media has finally started to catch on that the leviathan gubermant projects are not the end all last hope for mankind. I wonder what Elon will do once GF gets its full size prototype VC funds end of this year? That should put the wind up the skirts of the green solar market cronies.

Full scale project cash, by the way, is the true announcement that will catch my attention for any of these dark horses.
Near term, cheap, dark horse fusion hits the air waves, GF - TED, LM - Announcement. The race is on.

Ivy Matt
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Re: More Helion Energy news....

Postby Ivy Matt » Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:43 pm

djolds1 wrote:Still, the players who look good for near-term pay-off:

Tri-Alpha
Helion
Lockheed Martin
Lawrenceville
General Atomics
EMC2

Each of which is running with their own distinct design. That is an... EXTRAORDINARY range of promising near-term candidates. Especially compared to the DoE's "magnetic, inertial or nothing!" dictum of the last 40 years.

What I also find extraordinary is that they have similar development timelines, with the possible exception of Tri-Alpha: demonstration of net energy gain by about 2017; development of a commercial prototype around 2019-2022. Of course, development timelines can be flexible.
Temperature, density, confinement time: pick any two.

Skipjack
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Re: More Helion Energy news....

Postby Skipjack » Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:57 pm

djolds1 wrote:Lawrenceville Plasma Physics and EMC2 have both claimed the pB11 cycle, but EMC2 has been dark for years and Lawrenceville is aiming at a 5-10 megawatt reactor IIRC. Nice and small for the local city-block power plant, but probably not in the 100-10,000 MW range for "muscular" applications.

Still, the players who look good for near-term pay-off:

Tri-Alpha
Helion
Lockheed Martin
Lawrenceville
General Atomics
EMC2

Each of which is running with their own distinct design. That is an... EXTRAORDINARY range of promising near-term candidates. Especially compared to the DoE's "magnetic, inertial or nothing!" dictum of the last 40 years.

Yes, these are all interesting contenders. Wished, we knew more about Lockheed.

djolds1 wrote:No, I was thinking of the lifting body diagram in this:

http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/03/george ... clear.html

This is not based on a FRC reactor, but a DPF, like LPPs design.

djolds1 wrote:I know the Helion Fusion Engine is the powerplant version of the Slough Fusion-Driven Rocket.

No, they are very different designs. The Fusion Driven Rocket uses an imploding metal liner that compresses a single FRC plasmoid. The Helion reactor collides two FRC plasmoids and compresses them using high speed magnetic compression only.

djolds1 wrote:But an FDR isn't going to achieve the difficult Earth-to-Orbit part of "halfway to anywhere."

Yes, that is unfortunately true. The DPF or the Polywell seem to be the only ones that could take a spacecraft to orbit, provided they work as advertised.

crowberry
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Re: More Helion Energy news....

Postby crowberry » Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:01 am

mvanwink5 wrote:
I have heard LM is not a contender. Just what I have "heard," and since LM's efforts are darker than Tri-Alpha I am unsure it should be on a list anymore.


After the original LM Skunk Works announcement on February 7th there has only been one new piece of information AFAIK on their status. That was by LPP in the connection of the Google aneutronic fusion Solve for X meeting on June 11th 2013, when they said:

The reports given by the participants confirmed that, at the moment, LPP has achieved the best fusion results by far. LPP reported a density-time-temperature product over 2,000 times higher than that of Tri-Alpha, despite Tri-Alpha’s much larger, 150-person research team. Both of the other efforts are at considerably earlier stages of development.

In this context the "other efforts" are referring to LM Skunk Works and General Fusion.
mvanwink5, is this the information that you have "heard" or do you have some additional source of information?

mvanwink5
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Re: More Helion Energy news....

Postby mvanwink5 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:33 am

crowberry,
Maybe that was what my source was referring to, I didn't ask. The point was that I know truly nothing about LM's efforts technically and if anyone here does know more than that it seems they can't say anything at all. So, for me, LM's effort is just smoke.

These days I put stock in new cash and a full scale prototype funding round is the gold standard (so to speak) in my book, and VC cash to me is the only believable economic vote as .Gov cash is purely political not economic. This is just my in the dark POV, however, as I am not truly in the know as others here might be. I think by the end of 2014 we will see a full scale prototype funded and GF has perhaps the best shot at that.
Near term, cheap, dark horse fusion hits the air waves, GF - TED, LM - Announcement. The race is on.

Skipjack
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Re: More Helion Energy news....

Postby Skipjack » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:34 pm

mvanwink5 wrote:crowberry,
Maybe that was what my source was referring to, I didn't ask. The point was that I know truly nothing about LM's efforts technically and if anyone here does know more than that it seems they can't say anything at all. So, for me, LM's effort is just smoke.

The just recently released an image film showing their fusion work (among other things). So they are still working on it. I assume they are just very secretive about it (like Tri Alpha).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6L5J7W ... dIQGbVpDsQ

Helion has been holding back a lot of information that they are only releasing now. They had to make sure that their innovations were protected first. We will be seeing a lot more from them in coming months.

mvanwink5
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Re: More Helion Energy news....

Postby mvanwink5 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:57 pm

Skipjack,
Don't confuse an LM advertisement with reality. That is all I will say about that. Like LPP I will believe it when the moneymen put their money down (and not gubermant politicking money).
Near term, cheap, dark horse fusion hits the air waves, GF - TED, LM - Announcement. The race is on.

Skipjack
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Re: More Helion Energy news....

Postby Skipjack » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:17 pm

mvanwink5 wrote:Skipjack,
Don't confuse an LM advertisement with reality.

I am not and I would be careful to believe anything Lockheed says, but the reactor concept shown in the video looks a lot like the one presented by Charles Chase earlier. This means to me that their work on this is not completely dead yet. So I would not completely throw them out of the race just yet. That is all I am trying to say.

mvanwink5
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Re: More Helion Energy news....

Postby mvanwink5 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:31 pm

Remember EEStor? Then LM came out with a patent for military hardware that assumed the EEStor device worked, yet EEStor has never had a working device, all vaporware. There is no telling how old that photo was in that video. However, I put them off my own list because unlike Tri-Alpha, no one knows what the principle is behind LM's early fusion work. It is the only fusion "project" where even the basic concept was kept "secret." But, hey, that is just my hardheaded view.

I am looking forward to good news coming out on Helion's research and hope it is enough to attract the cash. Thanks for keeping the information flowing.
Near term, cheap, dark horse fusion hits the air waves, GF - TED, LM - Announcement. The race is on.

Skipjack
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Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Re: More Helion Energy news....

Postby Skipjack » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:44 pm

mvanwink5 wrote:However, I put them off my own list because unlike Tri-Alpha, no one knows what the principle is behind LM's early fusion work. It is the only fusion "project" where even the basic concept was kept "secret." But, hey, that is just my hardheaded view.

It is not a bad view either. I was quite annoyed with the presentation by Lockheed and the way it was reported on. Very few facts everywhere. I wonder why Chase even bothered presenting it to the world. I am giving them a low probability as well, but I am not writing them off completely. It is Lockheed, after all. I hope to have more info on Helion soon.

crowberry
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Re: More Helion Energy news....

Postby crowberry » Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:21 pm

Skipjack wrote:The just recently released an image film showing their fusion work (among other things). So they are still working on it. I assume they are just very secretive about it (like Tri Alpha).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6L5J7W ... dIQGbVpDsQ


Skipjack, yes I know about that advertisement clip by LM. They have released another clip on the 6th of January this year where Charles Chase at 2 min 15 s briefly mentions the word "fusion" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj7ypZwilY0. But these videos don't contain any concrete information on the LM fusion concept, so they are not really interesting at all. Maybe they have submitted a patent application and are waiting for it to be approved until they say anything about how the thing is supposed to work? So for the moment they just want to give the message that something is in the works.

mvanwink5
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Re: More Helion Energy news....

Postby mvanwink5 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:34 pm

they just want to give the message that something is in the works.
Why? My guess is advertisement fluff and filler. Recovering something from lost money on some R&D. Like putting a dog on a car's hood on a TV ad. I read zero into it especially because there is nothing on the working concept and 2 seconds on the video. Pure smoke.
Near term, cheap, dark horse fusion hits the air waves, GF - TED, LM - Announcement. The race is on.

Skipjack
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Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Re: More Helion Energy news....

Postby Skipjack » Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:37 pm

crowberry wrote:
Skipjack wrote:The just recently released an image film showing their fusion work (among other things). So they are still working on it. I assume they are just very secretive about it (like Tri Alpha).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6L5J7W ... dIQGbVpDsQ


Skipjack, yes I know about that advertisement clip by LM. They have released another clip on the 6th of January this year where Charles Chase at 2 min 15 s briefly mentions the word "fusion" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj7ypZwilY0. But these videos don't contain any concrete information on the LM fusion concept, so they are not really interesting at all. Maybe they have submitted a patent application and are waiting for it to be approved until they say anything about how the thing is supposed to work? So for the moment they just want to give the message that something is in the works.

Yeah, I saw that one too. I think I even posted it here at some point. The only reason why the videos are of any interest at all, is because they indicate that the fusion work is still of some relevance to LM.

crowberry
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Re: More Helion Energy news....

Postby crowberry » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:22 pm

mvanwink5 wrote:
they just want to give the message that something is in the works.
Why? My guess is advertisement fluff and filler. Recovering something from lost money on some R&D. Like putting a dog on a car's hood on a TV ad. I read zero into it especially because there is nothing on the working concept and 2 seconds on the video. Pure smoke.


We just have to wait and see if something concrete ever comes out of the LM fusion announcement from last year.

Skipjack
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Re: More Helion Energy news....

Postby Skipjack » Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:50 pm

crowberry wrote:
mvanwink5 wrote:
they just want to give the message that something is in the works.
Why? My guess is advertisement fluff and filler. Recovering something from lost money on some R&D. Like putting a dog on a car's hood on a TV ad. I read zero into it especially because there is nothing on the working concept and 2 seconds on the video. Pure smoke.


We just have to wait and see if something concrete ever comes out of the LM fusion announcement from last year.

Well, they set a pretty tight deadline for themselves. So we wont have to wait too long until we can make an educated guess whether it was all fluff, or whether there was something to it after all.


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