Energy conversion...

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

Moderators: tonybarry, MSimon

Heath_h49008
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:12 pm
Location: Michigan

Energy conversion...

Post by Heath_h49008 »

This might not be "bleeding edge" enough for this crowd, but I haven't noticed this on the board.


http://www.askmar.com/Fusion_files/Venetian%20Blind.pdf

It's from Livermore, so you may already have it...

Skipjack
Posts: 6108
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Post by Skipjack »

I am pretty sure that this has been discussed here before. At least it sounds very familiar to me.

Betruger
Posts: 2311
Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 11:54 am

Post by Betruger »

It was discussed. At least one person argued it had technical issues with it, I can't recall who.

MSimon
Posts: 14332
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Contact:

Post by MSimon »

The issue is collection voltages vs. particle energy distributions.

Since particle energy distributions are unknown there is no way to tell (even BOE) how it will work.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Heath_h49008
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:12 pm
Location: Michigan

Post by Heath_h49008 »

With a WB type core, we should have a good idea of where our high energy products will exit. Unless I'm forgetting something, we should have predictable "hot spots" that correspond to the cusp openings.

MSimon
Posts: 14332
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Contact:

Post by MSimon »

Heath_h49008 wrote:With a WB type core, we should have a good idea of where our high energy products will exit. Unless I'm forgetting something, we should have predictable "hot spots" that correspond to the cusp openings.
If the gyroradius of the alphas is smaller than the "holes" in the donuts then the alphas should just come out of the holes. It depends on the magnetic fields. A 3T field with a 1 m hole works. Scale that up or down (6T field for .5 m hole for example).

Since the assumed parameter for a working reactor is 10 T for a 2 m hole it should work fine.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

KitemanSA
Posts: 6114
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:05 pm
Location: OlyPen WA

Post by KitemanSA »

If you search back thru the old topics, you will find a series of postings with some pretty good graphics of such a system integrated with a Polywell. However, it was then dropped because "oops, the alphas go out in every direction!" Only after the topic had been dropped for numerous months did Dr. N. say, "nope, the alphas would preferentially exit the cusps after all". Maybe it is time to reprise the old discussions?

Heath_h49008
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:12 pm
Location: Michigan

Post by Heath_h49008 »

I wouldn't be opposed. I'm a bit new here, and not a particle physicist... I can be a bit slow to reach the same velocity as everyone else in a conversation.

:wink:

chrismb
Posts: 3161
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:00 pm

Post by chrismb »

KitemanSA wrote:If you search back thru the old topics, you will find a series of postings with some pretty good graphics of such a system integrated with a Polywell. However, it was then dropped because "oops, the alphas go out in every direction!" Only after the topic had been dropped for numerous months did Dr. N. say, "nope, the alphas would preferentially exit the cusps after all". Maybe it is time to reprise the old discussions?
weeell.. not really. If polywell works as stamped, I might even agree the alphas come out predictably. The issue isn't the distribution of their directions but the distribution of their energies, as MSimon states [actually demonstrating *some* knowledge of the plasma physics well enough]. :wink:

KitemanSA
Posts: 6114
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:05 pm
Location: OlyPen WA

Post by KitemanSA »

chrismb wrote: weeell.. not really. If polywell works as stamped, I might even agree the alphas come out predictably. The issue isn't the distribution of their directions but the distribution of their energies, as MSimon states [actually demonstrating *some* knowledge of the plasma physics well enough]. :wink:
IIRC, the discussions back then spent a significant effort on handling the distribution of energies. Don't condemn until you read. :wink:

mad_derek
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:08 am
Location: UK (mostly)

Direct Conversion

Post by mad_derek »

KitemanSA wrote:IIRC, the discussions back then spent a significant effort on handling the distribution of energies. Don't condemn until you read.
Yes, you do.

The real question is: if it works how many grids are needed such that the released energy cost is lowest.
Insanity Rules!

MSimon
Posts: 14332
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Contact:

Re: Direct Conversion

Post by MSimon »

mad_derek wrote:
KitemanSA wrote:IIRC, the discussions back then spent a significant effort on handling the distribution of energies. Don't condemn until you read.
Yes, you do.

The real question is: if it works how many grids are needed such that the released energy cost is lowest.
And that question is not only one of the number of grids but also how to handle the residual heat load.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

KitemanSA
Posts: 6114
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:05 pm
Location: OlyPen WA

Post by KitemanSA »

One other point for optimization that I don't recall being dicussing in THIS context but has been discussed in general is the sputtered material due to non-optimized conversion. Thoughts?

chrismb
Posts: 3161
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:00 pm

Post by chrismb »

KitemanSA wrote: IIRC, the discussions back then spent a significant effort on handling the distribution of energies. Don't condemn until you read. :wink:
I read, commented, re-read, re-commented, &c. and now feel well placed to condemn. Show me the extra-ordinary proof this extra-ordinary thing can work, and whoever does so will get a "fancy that, it works!!" out of me.

MSimon
Posts: 14332
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Contact:

Post by MSimon »

chrismb wrote:
KitemanSA wrote: IIRC, the discussions back then spent a significant effort on handling the distribution of energies. Don't condemn until you read. :wink:
I read, commented, re-read, re-commented, &c. and now feel well placed to condemn. Show me the extra-ordinary proof this extra-ordinary thing can work, and whoever does so will get a "fancy that, it works!!" out of me.
It is not extraordinary chris. As far as I can tell it is just electrostatics. If you can accelerate particles with electrostatics why can't you decelerate them?
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Post Reply