Blacklight Power claims validation and due diligence

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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Carl White
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Blacklight Power claims validation and due diligence

Post by Carl White »

Details here:

http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/04/blackl ... .html#more

with the significant quote being:

"Validations and Technical Due Diligence - underway with National Labs, defense contractors, electronics manufacturers, large conglomerates, multi-national energy companies and others."

But the slides don't actually name which labs, manufacturers or conglomerates, of course. That sets off a BS alarm right there.

Kahuna
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Post by Kahuna »

This is typical of BLP. I would love to be wrong about them and I do think they are self-deluded (rather than a scam), but they seem to keep coming up with "one more" reason to believe.

In this case, I would parse the statement "Validations and Technical Due Diligence - underway with National Labs, defense contractors, electronics manufacturers, large conglomerates, multi-national energy companies and others." and note "underway with" rather than the more diffinitive "underway at" in the wording.

I could be wrong on this of course, but I suspect that because they may have provided technical documention or even catalyst material, they rationalize that they are participating with these third parties in vlaidation. In fact, nothing may be going on at these institutions.

I really wish that just one top-tier lab would actually undertake this experiementation as a public service and either validate or debunk BLP claims. In the unlikely event that there is something to them, it is past time time know. If not, it is time to get it on the public record as Dr. Mills has put so many of his claims out there.

KAHUNA
Last edited by Kahuna on Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nik
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Hmmm...

Post by Nik »

Well, I've lived through the Big Bang, quarks and Plate Tectonics going from wild notions to main-stream but, being extraordinary claims, they took extraordinary verification. Such seems lacking from BLP and their degrading catalyst...

Funny, these purported hydrinos remind me of 'Ice Nine' by Kurt Vonnegut, where a super-stable form of ice, once synthesised, takes over the world...

My casual calculation suggests water could likewise collapse as an exothermic process, bringing the end of days. IMHO, that's a fractionally higher probability than CERN's big ring spitting out a micro-sized black hole which proceeds to swallow the planet...

kurt9
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Post by kurt9 »

We shall know by the end of this year if these claims are true.

Kahuna
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Post by Kahuna »

kurt9 wrote:We shall know by the end of this year if these claims are true.
I am dubious about that. I thought the same thing last year when BLP signed up a bunch of utilities to use their tech in powere production - nothing yet. The Rowan folks published a paper last year with pretty much the complete playbook (recipies, setup and processes) required for validation of the BLP process - nothing yet.

Mills has been at this since the 90's. He has attracted lots of money and a very impressive board, but still no validation through commericial application or from a first tier technical institution. I suspect it will continue.

KAHUNA

scareduck
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Post by scareduck »

And I claim ... why, I claim I am Mary, Queen of Scots.

TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

I'm still voting for nickel transmutation. Seems to explain everything nicely. Of course, it doesn't work as an economically feasible power-generating process, but you could get some demos to appear to be doing something exciting.

Fractional electron states doesn't sound any more plausible than it ever did. I confidently predict BLP devices will not be in widespread use in ten years. I suspect they will turn out to require lots of "maintenance" which will consist of replacing the nickel. It's not a catalyst, it's a fuel.
n*kBolt*Te = B**2/(2*mu0) and B^.25 loss scaling? Or not so much? Hopefully we'll know soon...

Skipjack
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Post by Skipjack »

I am still skeptical that the thing is doing anything at all. Shouldnt we have seen a commercial reactor by now?
Where is it?

GIThruster
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Post by GIThruster »

I'd certainly love to read people's reactions to the papers published back in April:

http://www.blacklightpower.com/pdf/ThermallyCoupled.pdf
http://www.blacklightpower.com/pdf/Cont ... hermal.pdf
http://www.blacklightpower.com/pdf/MotivePower.pdf


The first two links seem important (at first glance, I haven't yet read the papers) just because they do seem to be commercial designs. The third link on motive power is even more interesting because they are talking about a new design (which one sees nowhere) that is like a fuel cell in that it produces electrical power with no heat cycle, their "CIHT" reactor.

IMHO, BLP is no farce. Their physics may be wrong, but they are generating very interesting results for years now (as is Rowan, for almost 2 years now is it?) I'd love to see a compact design, like their original plasma-dynamic conversion design that needs no heat cycle, combined with VASIMR. The oldest designs were planned for P-D conversion but they abandoned this because that system was supposedly very much less efficient than a heat cycle conversion. Doesn't matter if you then use the plasma for VASIMR. Just think of the mass saved with no heat cycle, no radiators, etc. That holds the promise of a very compact and inexpensive robotic mission to replace JIMO--worth NASA's time and energy to investigate, it seems to me; especially since funding has supposedly been returned to advanced propulsion research, and VASIMR is so far along.

tomclarke
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Post by tomclarke »

Well, all they need is a single small-scale experiment with clear net power over time long enough to rule out chemical reactions. It seems they are unable to produce this. (Previous "evidence" was stunningly unconvincing).

If what they have could be commercial it should be the easiest thing in the world to run a closed experiment under third party verified conditions for long enough unambiguously to show net power.

Rather like fusion efforts - except in the case of fusion the science showing why there might be net power is well understood!

Best wishes, Tom

GIThruster
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Post by GIThruster »

I was under the impression Rowan has been running their reactor for more than a year. Have you read this report, Tom?

http://www.blacklightpower.com/pdf/BLPI ... Report.pdf

There are actually several reports grouped here, but to quote the conclusion from the third, about half way down the link:

"The scientific investigations completed at Rowan University make it quite clear that there is a source of heat being generated in these numerous chemical reactions that cannot be explained in the confines of conventional modern chemistry. Dozens of calibrations on both the 5X and 50X calorimeter cells have given our research team confidence that there is but a small error in the water flow calorimetry, (having coupling efficiencies averaging above 98%). In all cases the heat gains observed are many multiples greater than any potential inaccuracies of our measurement system. The chemical analyses completed by RU chemists have been performed on all the heat runs reported herein for both 5X and 50X scale reactions. These studies show repeatedly that the amount of heat generated in the reactions exceed known conventional chemical reaction pathways. Many additional studies by the Department of Chemistry indicate that an anomalous signature of a novel form of hydrogen (called “hydrino” by BLP) has been observed during characterization of the products. In addition to the dozens of experiments completed to date on BLP technology at the South Jersey Technology Park, several validation runs have also been observed at BLP by Rowan University professors and students. From this plethora of data our conclusion is that some novel reaction is causing large releases of excess energy as BLP contends. It is the sincere hope of the research team at Rowan University that other research laboratories across the world will find confidence from our results to begin reproducing these experiments for themselves."

Did you think the chemical analysis inadequate or had you not seen the reports?

GIThruster
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Post by GIThruster »

For anyone who is interested, this is the work that I think would combine well with VASIMR which one hopes is going to continue to get full funding and testing (2011 or 2012 they say) aboard ISS:

http://niac.usra.edu/files/studies/fina ... rchese.pdf

Giorgio
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Post by Giorgio »

Blacklight will remain into my bullshit folder until the time when they will make a pubblic experiment proving what they claim.

No one had the occasion to test their claims until now (I am not considering Rowan an indipendent institution) yet, according their own words, verification experiments could be very easily done.
They just need to supply some of their "magic powder" to a dozen of indipendent (and possibly skeptic) institutions and just ask them to explain IF there is excess heat and why.
This will close the mouth of anyone.

Unfortunately it looks like Blacklight has some issues in doing it this way. I wonder why..... :roll:

As for all those PDF they presented in April, they are not adding anything to their claims as they are all based on the fundamental point that their heath generation system does work, which IMHO has not yet been proved at all.

parallel
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Post by parallel »

Giorgio writes:
“Blacklight will remain into my bullshit folder until the time when they will make a pubblic experiment proving what they claim.”

Why do the critics not read the various papers before posting? There is no prize for posting uninformed comments.

Originally the critics stated that they wouldn’t believe it until it was confirmed by an independent university. Now that has been done, it seems it has to be a university they like. Rowan duplicated their own tests using just materials they themselves had purchased (no special mix from BLP) and indeed the “formula” has been posted. The surplus heat is KWs, far larger than can possibly be explained by experimental error.

Any other university could try to replicate the process/experiment, but they have to want to do that first. I suspect there are too many academics afraid of trying anything that controversial. My theoretical physics is not up to judging the theoretical basis, but that is a different topic. One would have thought the test results would be interesting to the theoretical folk.

Edited typo
Last edited by parallel on Thu May 27, 2010 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

Nothing like a comment in uniform! Sorry, couldn't resist :)

The problem is other researchers have tried, unsuccessfully, to duplicate Mills' experiments. So at the very least, this a very tricky setup.

Now, that said, there does seem to be something here beyond EE. I don't think these guys are in the same camp as the Sonship "free electricity" guys with their zero point energy permanent magnet generators. But I won't believe in fractional electron states until I've been microwaving burritos with an unattended Blacklight generator for a year. And that should have happened years ago if this tech actually worked the way BLP is claiming.

The most likely explanation still looks to be a LENR effect like nickel transmutation that is very interesting but not the answer to the world's power needs.
n*kBolt*Te = B**2/(2*mu0) and B^.25 loss scaling? Or not so much? Hopefully we'll know soon...

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