Mach Effect progress

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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GIThruster
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Postby GIThruster » Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:54 am

"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

ScottL
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Postby ScottL » Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:44 am


GIThruster
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Postby GIThruster » Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:40 am

"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

GeeGee
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Postby GeeGee » Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:04 pm


paulmarch
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Location: Friendswood, TX USA
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Postby paulmarch » Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:12 am

Paul March
Friendswood, TX

paulmarch
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Postby paulmarch » Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:20 am

Paul March

Friendswood, TX

chrismb
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Postby chrismb » Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:28 am


GIThruster
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Postby GIThruster » Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:24 am

"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

chrismb
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Postby chrismb » Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:27 am


GIThruster
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Postby GIThruster » Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:35 am

"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

chrismb
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Postby chrismb » Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:48 pm


CaptainBeowulf
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Postby CaptainBeowulf » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:25 pm


GIThruster
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Postby GIThruster » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:59 pm

"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

93143
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Postby 93143 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:40 pm

If you're going to assess energy conservation in a thruster, you have to account for both the thruster (and whatever's attached to it) and its propellant. This is what makes rockets conserve energy - the chemical energy in the propellant is converted into a fixed amount of kinetic energy inherent in the velocity difference between the rocket and its exhaust.

That is, if you take the sum of the kinetic energy of the spacecraft and its propellant before and after the propellant is used, the difference is the chemical energy of the propellant times the efficiency of the rocket.

Single-velocity kinetic energy is frame-dependent. Velocity-difference kinetic energy is not.

With M-E, the reaction mass is some possibly-weighted subset of the rest of the universe. What is the velocity of this subset before and after being pushed on? Presumably the values are such that energy is conserved, if the thruster works.

See, it's not at all trivial to show that M-E thruster operation violates conservation of energy. The device can easily be assigned a notional behaviour that doesn't. Whether this leads to an entropy condition violation is a separate question; I have been assured that it doesn't, but I'd rather get into the math myself when I have the time...

...

GoatGuy and chrismb are making a dead argument; it has been disassembled repeatedly. They are drawing the box too small. M-E thrusters have never been claimed to push on nothing. If the thrusters are supposed to be pushing on something, you have to include that something in your assessment of conservation of energy. They didn't. Their argument is therefore invalid.


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