BLP news

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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birchoff
Posts: 200
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:11 pm

Re: BLP news

Post by birchoff »

GIThruster wrote:I still don't see the point of the demo. With such enormous current in, you have to know what is coming out and flashes on a vid don't do it for me.

But certainly they are building equipment. I still think they think this is real.
I watched both part one and part two of the videos published on the 07/21/2014 demonstration and the video your referring to was actually meant to convey the different mechanism they have for feeding the ignition system. Which makes sense since their january demonstration showed a set of gears instead of a roller. The other point of the demo was to show continuous feeding of the rollers. since the january demo they were using pellets where as now they changed it to be what seems like a lightly hydrated powder. finally, if memory serves I believe the energy flowing through the rollers is high voltage not high current. And as Mills explains in the demonstration is only meant to crak the H20 so that it can be turned into his hypothesized hydrino. As for whether or not that is actually happening that is a different question.

birchoff
Posts: 200
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:11 pm

Re: BLP news

Post by birchoff »

Aero wrote:Ok - so it makes sparks. Maybe more sparks than a sparkler fireworks, but I'm not sure. I think the HotCat demo is more impressive.
LOL, from all the demos recorded on the july 21st, 2014 demo I would say in totality they were just as impressive as the hotcat demo. Neither have proved that they have something commercially practical yet, even though both look promising. I would only give Rossi/IH the edge because I am not entirely sold on Mill's Theory, where as the cold fusion/LENR research folks seem to have done much more work which I would personally consider as the foundation of what Rossi/IH are doing.

The major issue for Rossi/IH is they do not appear to be anywhere near self sustaining reaction. Where as if Mills is to believed it is my understanding he will have a field test unit which would display a self sustaining reaction in 6-7 months. Personally I think that is a tall order but he gets brownie points for trying.

Skipjack
Posts: 6805
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Re: BLP news

Post by Skipjack »

birchoff wrote:
Skipjack wrote:if this light is 50,000 times as bright as the sun, why aren't the spectators blinded by it, or worse get permanent damage to their retinas.
Since you also asked this question on NBF I would remiss if I didnt point out that someone had answer to that question their.
Me and Goat Guy were in total agreement there and no one has rebutted his much more elaborate take on the issue. The direct response given to me by Job001 is invalid. Light intensity declines with the square of the distance, not the cube.

GIThruster
Posts: 4686
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:17 pm

Re: BLP news

Post by GIThruster »

birchoff wrote:
GIThruster wrote:I still don't see the point of the demo. With such enormous current in, you have to know what is coming out and flashes on a vid don't do it for me.

But certainly they are building equipment. I still think they think this is real.
I watched both part one and part two of the videos published on the 07/21/2014 demonstration and the video your referring to was actually meant to convey the different mechanism they have for feeding the ignition system. Which makes sense since their january demonstration showed a set of gears instead of a roller. The other point of the demo was to show continuous feeding of the rollers. since the january demo they were using pellets where as now they changed it to be what seems like a lightly hydrated powder.
Please note my comment was made before the 7/21 vid. I was referring to the earlier vid.
finally, if memory serves I believe the energy flowing through the rollers is high voltage not high current. And as Mills explains in the demonstration is only meant to crak the H20 so that it can be turned into his hypothesized hydrino. As for whether or not that is actually happening that is a different question.
No actually, they stipulated high current, not high voltage. The point is the same however--they are not furnishing the power in or out of the reaction, so there is no reason to suppose it is an enormously energetic reaction until we see some numbers. I have not watched the latest vid (and I don't think we were expected to--why post hours of vid to watch Mills speak?) so I can't comment on that.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

Skipjack
Posts: 6805
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Re: BLP news

Post by Skipjack »

GIThruster wrote:
No actually, they stipulated high current, not high voltage. The point is the same however--they are not furnishing the power in or out of the reaction, so there is no reason to suppose it is an enormously energetic reaction until we see some numbers. I have not watched the latest vid (and I don't think we were expected to--why post hours of vid to watch Mills speak?) so I can't comment on that.
Mills claims
5 J input and the light energy released is over 500 J.
Last edited by Skipjack on Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

JoeP
Posts: 523
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:10 am

Re: BLP news

Post by JoeP »

"5 J input and the light energy released is over 500 J."

Eh, someone who know more about these demos educate me. To a casual observer like myself, it looks pretty unconvincing. I could make such a thing in my garage if I cared enough to try -- and if I wanted to risk getting electrocuted, which I don't :)

The claimed fuel material is some kind of hydrated metallic powder or pellets fed into electrified rollers, which causes shorts and the supposed hydrino reaction -- which is supposed to be the main contribution to the light and heat emitted?

OK, so did Mills run this with non-hydrated fuel?

My guess is that any excess energy (if there is any) is the metals simply heating up due to the shorts and then burning up in the atmosphere. Very energetic for sure...all basic chemistry.

birchoff
Posts: 200
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:11 pm

Re: BLP news

Post by birchoff »

Skipjack wrote:
birchoff wrote:
Skipjack wrote:if this light is 50,000 times as bright as the sun, why aren't the spectators blinded by it, or worse get permanent damage to their retinas.
Since you also asked this question on NBF I would remiss if I didnt point out that someone had answer to that question their.
Me and Goat Guy were in total agreement there and no one has rebutted his much more elaborate take on the issue. The direct response given to me by Job001 is invalid. Light intensity declines with the square of the distance, not the cube.
when I wrote this neither GoatGuy or you had responded to job001's response to your question. My intent was to point out to you and anyone else that saw your question that someone had attempted a response to your question since it was identical. As for whether or not their response was valid thank you for pointing out their incorrect statement.

Skipjack
Posts: 6805
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Re: BLP news

Post by Skipjack »

JoeP wrote: OK, so did Mills run this with non-hydrated fuel?
At the beginning of the demonstration, they show what they claim to be an empty carrier material, without their hydrinos and that does not seem to be doing much. Now there are all sorts of ways to fake this, if you want to. They do not show any sort of double blind test.

GIThruster
Posts: 4686
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:17 pm

Re: BLP news

Post by GIThruster »

Though there are lots of ways to fake this, if they were caught in a fake while raising investment funds (what they say they['re doing) people would go to prison. BLP doesn't strike me as that sort. I am just saying, we are not being exposed to carefully controlled scientific conditions, nor real data. Need to see that stuff. The flashes mean nothing when you're dealing with currents powerful enough to vaporize metal.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

birchoff
Posts: 200
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:11 pm

Re: BLP news

Post by birchoff »

Please note my comment was made before the 7/21 vid. I was referring to the earlier vid.
My bad didnt look at the date on your comment.
No actually, they stipulated high current, not high voltage. The point is the same however--they are not furnishing the power in or out of the reaction, so there is no reason to suppose it is an enormously energetic reaction until we see some numbers.
I agree that there demonstrations are short on numbers. Personally the only thing that matters is whether or not they can build a self sustaining reactor. It doesn't matter to me if the first unit built (his field test unit I believe is due in 6-7 months) demonstrates the claimed excess energy out, because in the end if he has a device capable of only taking in water and running for weeks, months, years on end. Then it no longer matters what we in the cheap seats think about his demonstrations. My gut tells me that if he is being honest these demos were more about showing investors (former/current/potential), and bystanders interested in the technology what they have been up to. As long as you accept what he says about the energy in and out then the demo's make sense. Otherwise if your looking for hard numbers I suspect that will either never come because he is either a fraud or hopelessly clueless or someone will lease one of his devices when they hit the market and do a test of their own and publish the results.
I have not watched the latest vid (and I don't think we were expected to--why post hours of vid to watch Mills speak?) so I can't comment on that.
Watching the vids isn't an expectation. That said, I am interested in seeing this idea/technology actually works AND crosses the chasm from lab device to commercial product. As a result the video demonstrations are informative. I am also interested in seeing if Helion and Tri Alpha Energy actually works and can be turned into commercial power reactors. Unfortunately both of those organizations tend to be tight lipped about their progress. And while I have no right to demand that they keep me up to date on what they have acomplished it would be nice.

P.S. I am not comparing Mills/BLP to Helion and Tri Alpha Energy...

Skipjack
Posts: 6805
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Re: BLP news

Post by Skipjack »

GIThruster wrote:Though there are lots of ways to fake this, if they were caught in a fake while raising investment funds (what they say they['re doing) people would go to prison. BLP doesn't strike me as that sort. I am just saying, we are not being exposed to carefully controlled scientific conditions, nor real data. Need to see that stuff. The flashes mean nothing when you're dealing with currents powerful enough to vaporize metal.
It would be easy to change the current going through the metal depending on whether it is meant to "spark" or not. I am not saying they did that, but that it would be easy. Risk is part of every con. This seems to be comparably risk free.

GIThruster
Posts: 4686
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:17 pm

Re: BLP news

Post by GIThruster »

There's nothing in BLP's history to suggest they would get involved in a con. They may be involved in self-deception, but I just can't imagine they'd take part in a deliberate con, especially when they have now so many years of work under their belts. This is not like EEStore or some such.

Not saying I buy it, but I want to see real data. Flashes of light mean nothing.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

Skipjack
Posts: 6805
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Re: BLP news

Post by Skipjack »

GIThruster wrote:There's nothing in BLP's history to suggest they would get involved in a con.
Strangely enough, I interpret their history as just the opposite. But hey, I would so love to be wrong. I really do!

birchoff
Posts: 200
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:11 pm

Re: BLP news

Post by birchoff »

JoeP wrote:"5 J input and the light energy released is over 500 J."

Eh, someone who know more about these demos educate me. To a casual observer like myself, it looks pretty unconvincing. I could make such a thing in my garage if I cared enough to try -- and if I wanted to risk getting electrocuted, which I don't :)

The claimed fuel material is some kind of hydrated metallic powder or pellets fed into electrified rollers, which causes shorts and the supposed hydrino reaction -- which is supposed to be the main contribution to the light and heat emitted?
So your mostly right.

the fuel is actually H2O and the metallic powder/pellets is the catalyst. When I originally heard about these guys Late last year early this year their demonstrations were using pellets but it looks like they have abandoned that idea and are instead going with hydrated metallic powder which in designs created after the January 2014 demo magically (Mills made no effort I could see of explaining how either the pellets or powder would be re hydrated in these designs) got re-hydrated and fed back into interdigitated gears. In the July 21 2014 demos it looks like he switched out the gears and is instead using rollers (he gave some reason for that in either part 1 or part 2 of the recording made). That said, according to Mills the Gears/Rollers were energized for the purpose of cracking the H2O so that his catalyst could trigger the hydrino formation and yield the energy out mills has claimed.
JoeP wrote:OK, so did Mills run this with non-hydrated fuel?
In Part 1 of the recording made on July 21 2014, there are two null tests in the demo (IIRC one of them was by accident)...
  • Running metal only(where the metal was aluminum IIRC)
    Running hydrated metal powder with no power on (I believe this was the one done by accident)
JoeP wrote:My guess is that any excess energy (if there is any) is the metals simply heating up due to the shorts and then burning up in the atmosphere. Very energetic for sure...all basic chemistry.
While the heating of the metal particles are contributing to the excess energy, burning isn't. during the demo on July 21, 2014 he one or two demos where the reaction chamber was filled with argon. Now the chamber that the ignition was being shown in didn't look as if it was hermetically sealed but I am willing to give him a pass on this since I don't have any money ridding on him being right and it looked like they were continuously running argon through the chamber before the test for a considerable amount of time.

birchoff
Posts: 200
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:11 pm

Re: BLP news

Post by birchoff »

GIThruster wrote:Though there are lots of ways to fake this, if they were caught in a fake while raising investment funds (what they say they['re doing) people would go to prison. BLP doesn't strike me as that sort. I am just saying, we are not being exposed to carefully controlled scientific conditions, nor real data. Need to see that stuff. The flashes mean nothing when you're dealing with currents powerful enough to vaporize metal.
Seconded.

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