10KW LENR Demonstrator?

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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chrismb
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:00 pm

Postby chrismb » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:03 pm

Can someone explain why water has to flow into and out of this device? I don't get it - if the water is not a chemical part of the reaction, then why don't they just make a fully sealed box and transfer the heat to an external heat sink.

So what they could do that would be really really really convincing is to put the whole apparatus into a fully sealed up box with a small cylinder of H2, weld it shut and pass the 'heat generated' into the outer box as the heat sink. Then, just drop it into a swimming pool to keep it warm for a month and see if it can heat the swimming pool up. THAT would be convincing. Then there would be no doubt whatsoever.

chrismb
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Postby chrismb » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:07 pm

All this water-in-water-out sleight-of-hand mumbo-jumbo, and Levi saying 'well, I didn't really measure it because I didn't actually have a pump to do the job, but I guess it was a constant flow'

I mean, this guy is saying that he'd not risk his new post at this University on a scam - yet he can't even be bothered to get a pump and a flow meter!!!!!!!!!!!!

And you mugs take this stuff seriously?????????

CherryPick
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Location: Finland

Rossi device

Postby CherryPick » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:55 pm

Precision of the measurements is not not very important. It does not matter whether the Rossi device produces 10 kW or 20 kW. The amount of energy is huge anyway. The same applies to the amount of used hydrogen. 0.2 grams is just near zero pointing out that it did not do full scale chemical reactions with nickel.

Convincing us might not be the purpose of their demo. People who have money in play might have hired prof Levi and others in the university of Bologna to do some independent study before scaling up. It will help to protect their intellectual property, if world thinks that this is just another hoax. Whether it really is, I can't tell.

chrismb
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:00 pm

Postby chrismb » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:48 pm

The issue, the problem, the trouble that this is causing is that it is, yet further, likely to alienate the scientific community to hearing about any bona-fide small-scale nuclear work.

No-one in the 'mainstream' is prepared to listen to independent researchers of small-scale fusion research any more, precisely because of persons like Rossi who demonstrate no regard whatsoever for a scientific approach to the matter.

Whether or not it is a pecuniary 'scam', it is already well-demonstrated to be a 'scientific scam' - blisteringly badly judged experimental protocols that seem almost deliberately mis-construed so as to maximise the likelihood of 'mainstream scientists' entrenching their dismissive views of small-scale fusion.

Axil
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Postby Axil » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:05 pm

And you mugs take this stuff seriously?????????

Energy production is the game of the millennium in this time of paradigm transitions and energy world politics.

Energy production is now a potent arm of national power projection. There is OPEC, Iran, and Russia using their oil and gas reserves to advance their national agendas.

The stakes are huge and the fate of entire nations is in the balance.

The US will have spent three trillion dollars on its oil wars to maintain their position in the game; what will come of this investment?

The NRC and the IAEA of tools of US foreign policy used to control other nations from wielding the power of the atom. Will the US unleash its IAEA weapon at the new LENR technology to stifle it?

China has a growing stake in the game as that emerging country jockeys for increased advantage in the energy game. The Asians are running low on uranium and coal, what will they do to respond?

If you are interested in the world and how the future will shake out, potential disruptive energy technologies are an interesting probe in the often hidden agendas of the big national power players.

It doesn’t matter is the Rossi scenario is a fraud or not, as long as it is a very good one; it still might rise some dust and in so doing reveal something interesting. But in the delicious prospect that it is a new and effective energy paradigm, it is an ideal probe into the often hidden agendas of the important national power players around the world.

How will they react? Who will support the new upstart, and who will try to crush it. How will the forces of profit and loss swirl to a conclusion?

You couldn’t ask for something more interesting and entertaining. If you are a person who likes to poke a stick into the wasp nest of the status quo, this might be your time.

You might compare the Rossi reactor to a high energy proton shot into the center of the world energy nucleus of production and consumption; it will be interesting to see what this new reaction will reveal as the various nuclear fragments shot off at light speed in all directions.

Just sit back in your comfortable armchair and bear witness to how this new and impactful current in world history will play out.

If you have a stake in this unfolding drama I will be interested in how you fare.
Last edited by Axil on Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

chrismb
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:00 pm

Postby chrismb » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:15 pm

Axil wrote:You couldn’t ask for something more interesting and entertaining. If you are a person who likes to poke a stick into the wasp nest of the status quo, this might be your time.
I already have a real stick to do that with. But while Rossi twiddles his imaginary tickle-stick, he is degrading the routes through which REAL small-scale scientific work can flourish.

It is vandalism of the scientific method and it is just another bad case of some fool polarising independent researchers from 'institutional' research.

The last 4 hundred years have seen science go from something that intelligent self-funded individuals did to one where government interests have taken it over. The more this kind of stuff goes on, the less opportunity private researchers have of making a real impact on science.

This whole sorry saga is about how press interest is more important, these days, than scientific method. How sad that is. And how sad it is that uneducated folks think that's OK.

bcglorf
Posts: 436
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:58 pm

Yep

Postby bcglorf » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:27 pm

Axil wrote:
And you mugs take this stuff seriously?????????

Energy production is the game of the millennium in this time of paradigm transitions and energy world politics.

Energy production is now a potent arm of national power projection. There is OPEC, Iran, and Russia using their oil and gas reserves to advance their national agendas.

The stakes are huge and the fate of entire nations is in the balance.

The US will have spent three trillion dollars on its oil wars to maintain their position in the game; what will come of this investment?

The NRC and the IAEA of tools of US foreign policy used to control other nations from wielding the power of the atom. Will the US unleash its IAEA weapon at the new LENR technology to stifle it?

China has a growing stake in the game as that emerging country jockeys for increased advantage in the energy game. The Asians are running low on uranium and coal, what will they do to respond?

If you are interested in the world and how the future will shake out, potential disruptive energy technologies are an interesting probe in the often hidden agendas of the big national power players.

It doesn’t matter is the Rossi scenario is a fraud or not, as long as it is a very good one; it still might rise some dust and in so doing reveal something interesting. But in the delicious prospect that it is a new and effective energy paradigm, it is an ideal probe into the often hidden agendas of the important national power players around the world.

How will they react? Who will support the new upstart, and who will try to crush it. How will the forces of profit and loss swirl to a conclusion?

You couldn’t ask for something more interesting and entertaining. If you are a person who likes to poke a stick into the wasp nest of the status quo, this might be your time.

You might compare the Rossi reactor to a high energy proton shot into the center of the world energy nucleus of production and consumption; it will be interesting to see what this new reaction will reveal as the various nuclear fragments shot off at light speed in all directions.

Just sit back in your comfortable armchair and bear witness to how this new and impactful current in world history will play out.

If you have a stake in this unfolding drama I will be interested in how you fare.


Right...

I've got a box in my basement that dumps out 40kw, without any input since the original water and nickel I put in over a year ago.

Oh, but you can't see it, or test it without signing a waiver.

Oh, and you can't get the waiver unless I think your interest is genuine.

Oh, and by genuine interest I mean that I am convinced you lack the dedication or competence to truly test my breakthrough.

So, do I get my piece of money for saving the most important geo-political problem of the century now?

No?

Then your ENTIRE POST had absolutely nothing to do with a single one of the problems with the claims being made about this device!!!!!

chrismb
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:00 pm

Postby chrismb » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:27 pm

I was, just now, considering writing to the Rettore di Università di Bologna to ask after this media circus that is going on...

....but when I did a search, actually I cannot find a single mainstream media outlet that is running with it!!

It is a little storm in a teeny teacup.

The only media that is running with it are the 'new energy' sites. 'Mystic aura' websites with 'new age blah-di-blah', and all that baloney.

I guess we should all be grateful that such topics like our friend, Mr Suppes, received multiple media threads in the mainstream, and Mr. Rossi has got none that I can find!

So my concerns that this stuff may lead to further dismissals of small scale scientific work by the 'mainstream' are unfounded. No-one of significance is likely to have ever heard of this.

Warthog
Posts: 22
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Location: Fox Island, WA

Postby Warthog » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:54 pm

MSimon wrote:
Axil wrote:
MSimon wrote:So I want an explanation of all the energy they aren't getting.

OK so where did the mass that didn't turn into energy go? Hidden in the magic powder as a photon flux? Or maybe they need to set up a neutrino detector.


Probably just leaked. Hydrogen is a known "escape artist", and I doubt that, since this was a demo unit, all the seals were "helium-leak tight" tested.

Axil
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Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:34 am

Postby Axil » Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:19 am

....but when I did a search, actually I cannot find a single mainstream media outlet that is running with it!!


I wonder why that is?

Could it be that most media outlets are controlled by huge corporations and their sponsors whose interests lie in sustaining a business plan centered on producing windmills, solar cells, oil, gas, coal, and light water reactors?

How can you judge the worth of an idea based on what you see, hear and read from the propaganda arms of the big corporations and the other fronts for sovereign wealth funds?

chrismb
Posts: 3161
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:00 pm

Postby chrismb » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:13 am

Axil wrote:How can you judge the worth of an idea based on what you see, hear and read from the propaganda arms of the big corporations and the other fronts for sovereign wealth funds?
I wasn't trying to judge it. My point was that all this is yet another example of a case of 'bad-science' that would alienate mainstream scientists to small-scale fusion work.

At the moment, this doesn't register a gnat's fart in the wind, despite all the gushing hot air and pontificating about it here and on other sites dedicated to new-age techno-cults.

I'll go rest easy, now that I have realised it is a zip-zero of a thing. Even the Bulgarian and Australian 'energy-from-nothing' motors have gotten more press!

bcglorf
Posts: 436
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:58 pm

Um

Postby bcglorf » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:08 pm

Axil wrote:
....but when I did a search, actually I cannot find a single mainstream media outlet that is running with it!!


I wonder why that is?

Could it be that most media outlets are controlled by huge corporations and their sponsors whose interests lie in sustaining a business plan centered on producing windmills, solar cells, oil, gas, coal, and light water reactors?

How can you judge the worth of an idea based on what you see, hear and read from the propaganda arms of the big corporations and the other fronts for sovereign wealth funds?


How can you judge the worth of this guys idea at all? When someone makes extraordinary claims the rational response is to ask for some manner of evidence to support the claim. That evidence is still entirely lacking in this case, and it is lacking without giving any good reason. Ignoring and dismissing his claim is the right response until the guy can present something resembling evidence for his claims. If he can't why does he deserve any more attention than the snake oils salesmen curing cancer in the heartlands?

Jboily
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:50 am

Postby Jboily » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:54 pm

chrismb wrote:....It is vandalism of the scientific method and it is just another bad case of some fool polarising independent researchers from 'institutional' research. ... .

Actually, I don't quite get your point here. Rossi is a small player, and was self funded. He based his design on institutions R&D on this exact subject that was actually going nowhere for decades. On top of this, the one doing and "in control" of the testing of the demonstration device is not Rossi, but one of those institutions researcher!

The one doing the "bad sciende" is not Rossi.

So, to me, it seems to be exactly the opposite of what you are saying.

So, what is it that you are so upset at?

Cheers,

jb

parallel
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Location: Philadelphia, PA

Postby parallel » Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:42 pm

Jboily,

You still don’t get it. What Rossi should do is give everything up to please a self-appointed critic on an obscure web site dealing with a completely different topic.

Heaven forbid he should manufacture and sell a product before dealing with the above priority.

bcglorf
Posts: 436
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:58 pm

Um

Postby bcglorf » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:09 pm

parallel wrote:Jboily,

You still don’t get it. What Rossi should do is give everything up to please a self-appointed critic on an obscure web site dealing with a completely different topic.

Heaven forbid he should manufacture and sell a product before dealing with the above priority.


So you'd have no problem with a guy manufacturing and selling a cure for cancer without any proof it actually works? There is most certainly a large enough market of dying people, desperate enough to be suckered into buying a well marketed placebo.

Can you explain why Rossi deserves the time of day from anyone?


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