10KW LENR Demonstrator?

Joseph Chikva · Post by **Joseph Chikva** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:06 am

Giorgio wrote:
KitemanSA wrote:
Joseph Chikva wrote: The man managing his own web-site not checking mails? May be but I doubt.
Folks get busy. I know of a fellow who manges a very complex web-site including a forum similar to this one who didn't answer an email from his forum moderator for over 3 months.
He replied to me 6:30 this morning, and he also updated his blog.
He was going to board his plane from Milano International airport in 30 min, so no meeting with him this round.

He is very kind.

Ivy Matt · Post by **Ivy Matt** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:08 am

Panacea or scam (or neither), the wheels are in motion. Daniele Passerini recently posted on his blog the text (in English) of an invitation he received to a Defkalion press conference on June 23 in Palaio Faliro (near Athens). An interesting quote:

[Defkalion Green Technologies s.a.] will start production and first distribution of its products from its factory in Xanthi for the Greek and Balkan markets, initially. Two more factories are scheduled within 2012. International sales are already strong in demand, which will spur exports.

Does anybody have a clue what that last sentence is talking about? Inquiries? Orders? Closed sales? (Surely not!) The results of an Internet poll? ("Would you buy an E-Cat for your home or business?")

The content of the press conference:

The press conference will comprise of undisclosed to-date information relating the technology’s commercial and industrial applications, the company’s strategic placements, as well as commercial issues that are of interest not only to Defkalion’s future customers, but also to the political society of our country.

The energy catalyzer: Greece's Hail Mary pass?

Oh, and here's one for Dan:

By combining Hydrogen and Nickel to create an exothermic reaction....

QED

KitemanSA wrote:I do note that you have apparently decided to re-brand the E-Cat with a degogatory label when an unambiguous on existed. So much for your vaunted "impartiality"?

I don't know, "Rossitron" has a quaint, mid-century feel to it that would not be out of place among actual high energy fusion experiments. Perhaps Rossi is too modest to have considered using his own name (although I certainly wouldn't bet on it), but "E-Cat" strikes me as a bit too cute and imitative of relatively recent naming trends in the information technology field. (I probably would have named it something like "EC/2500".

) At least Chris didn't refer to it as a "coffee machine".

tomclarke · Post by **tomclarke** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:55 am

Ivy Matt wrote:Panacea or scam (or neither), the wheels are in motion. Daniele Passerini recently posted on his blog the text (in English) of an invitation he received to a Defkalion press conference on June 23 in Palaio Faliro (near Athens). An interesting quote:

[Defkalion Green Technologies s.a.] will start production and first distribution of its products from its factory in Xanthi for the Greek and Balkan markets, initially. Two more factories are scheduled within 2012. International sales are already strong in demand, which will spur exports.
Does anybody have a clue what that last sentence is talking about? Inquiries? Orders? Closed sales? (Surely not!) The results of an Internet poll? ("Would you buy an E-Cat for your home or business?")

The content of the press conference:

The press conference will comprise of undisclosed to-date information relating the technology’s commercial and industrial applications, the company’s strategic placements, as well as commercial issues that are of interest not only to Defkalion’s future customers, but also to the political society of our country.
The energy catalyzer: Greece's Hail Mary pass?

Oh, and here's one for Dan:

By combining Hydrogen and Nickel to create an exothermic reaction....
QED

KitemanSA wrote:I do note that you have apparently decided to re-brand the E-Cat with a degogatory label when an unambiguous on existed. So much for your vaunted "impartiality"?
I don't know, "Rossitron" has a quaint, mid-century feel to it that would not be out of place among actual high energy fusion experiments. Perhaps Rossi is too modest to have considered using his own name (although I certainly wouldn't bet on it), but "E-Cat" strikes me as a bit too cute and imitative of relatively recent naming trends in the information technology field. (I probably would have named it something like "EC/2500". ) At least Chris didn't refer to it as a "coffee machine".

Rossi has had a few months of giving demos, and receiving feedback on what works.

He knows that steam out is inherently flaky.

He is clearly able to do a proper demo, with flow rate higher and no steam.

If he does not do this we must conclude that either he can't (get positive results) or he wants everyone examining his stuff to think it does not work.

Now guess which I think is more likely?

So all the other Rossi activity, if it is realler than this near-empty warehouse, is sign of fools parting with their money.

In reality, lots of people saying they are interested, even starting companies and trying to raise finds based on his demos so far, is par for the course and absolutely zero reason to take this seriously.

Which I now do not.

Giorgio · Post by **Giorgio** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:26 am

Looks like Rossi was not very happy of Krivit visit and also of the first statement he made on his blog about the correct way of measuring the water vapor.

Craig wrote: June 16th, 2011 at 10:12 PM

Dear Mr Rossi,

Can you respond to the recent assertions by Steven B Krivit that the method in which the steam may have been measured previously is potentially giving incorrect measurements of the power capability of the e-cat.

Krivit says in his blog post.

“I discussed the crucial difference in steam enthalpy calculations by mass versus by volume with Levi on Wednesday afternoon. Based on his initial response, I could not be sure if he had previously understood the potential impact.”

http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/06/ ... -and-levi/

I am hoping you can assure us that his concerns are invalid.

Best regards,
Craig

Andrea Rossi wrote:
June 17th, 2011 at 4:38 AM

Dear Craig:
Mr Krivit has understood nothing of what he saw, from what I have read in his ridiculous report… This guy has seen for half an hour an E-Cat in the factory where we make many tests, made some questions to Prof. Levi, Prof. Focardi and me. Evidently has understood nothing, perhaps for the short time we gave him, also because we have to work: maybe he is angry because we had to send him away from the closed boxes and because we had to say him good bye shortly because we have to make our work. Prof. Levi has explained very well to him how the measures have been made and the importance of the issue. He has explained very well that the percentage of uncondensed water in the steam has been measured in weight (in volume is impossible, for various reasons), and he also got confirmation of this from a specialist from whom he has taken indipendent counsel. Nevertheless, he has understood nothing, or wanted not to understand, for reasons he better knows. Our tests have been performed by Physics Professors, who know how to make measures , and I am measuring the performance every day on 300 reactors.
In any case we will start our 1 MW plant in october and we will see how it works. Of course I assure his considerations are invalid, but I want to say more: our products on the market will confirm this. Probably this journalist has been sent by someone that wants to dwarf our work. He also tried to blackmail prof. Levi, and Levi already has given to his attorney due information .
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Andrea Rossi wrote: June 17th, 2011 at 4:54 AM

Dear Roger Barker:
Please read the answer I gave to Craig:
AGAIN : WE MADE THE MEASUREMENT OF THE WATER IN WEIGHT !!!!!!
AND WE EXPLAINED THIS TO KRIVIT VERY WELL!!!!!
AND HE GOT CONFIRMATION OF THIS FROM AN INDIPENDENT PROFESSOR HE CONTACTED !!!!!
NOBODY MAKES THIS KIND OF MEASUREMENT IN VOLUME, BECAUSE IT IS A NONSENSE !!!!!
KRIVIT SAID ” I HAVE UNDERSTOOD” WHEN I TOLD THIS DURING THE INTERVIEW.
I HAVE MANY WITNESSES OF WHAT ABOVE ENCLOSED THE PROF. HE CONTACTED TO GET INDIPENDENT COUNSEL !!!!!
Warm Regards,
A.R.

I'll try to see if Krivit is willing to have a web chat once he is back in USA.
I am now more curious than before to hear from him what was his impression of Rossi and Focardi.

Edited to fix the order of the posts.

KitemanSA · Post by **KitemanSA** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:29 am

chrismb wrote:
KitemanSA wrote:I do note that you have apparently decided to re-brand the E-Cat with a degogatory label
I just noticed your Freudian slip! I rather think degogatory was mean to mean derogatory, of course, but your sub-conscious was thinking demagoguery !!

Had the exact same thought when I corrected it just now.

Giorgio · Post by **Giorgio** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:37 am

By the way, Krivit preliminary report is stating pretty much what we have been stating since a few months now:

Thus far, the scientific details provided by the E-Cat trio have been highly deficient and have not enabled the public to make an objective evaluation

http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/06/ ... -and-levi/

KitemanSA · Post by **KitemanSA** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:40 am

tomclarke wrote: He knows that steam out is inherently flaky.

He is clearly able to do a proper demo, with flow rate higher and no steam.

If he does not do this we must conclude that either he can't (get positive results) or he wants everyone examining his stuff to think it does not work.

OR that he gives not one fig of care what some "scientific hobbyists" on a small fusion related forum think. If his customer wants process steam, just MAYBE he is showing process steam. Gee, what a concept, demonstrate for your customer!

I HATE having to defend this guy against idiotic detractions but such faux fault finding prevents reasonable discussion and I really want reasonable discussion on this.

Please folks, edit your fingertips!

sorry Tom, you just happened to get in the way of a screed. I'll try not to let it happen again.

Giorgio · Post by **Giorgio** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:02 pm

KitemanSA wrote:I HATE having to defend this guy against idiotic detractions but such faux fault finding prevents reasonable discussion and I really want reasonable discussion on this.

But you can't get a reasonable discussion without having some reasonable evidences or experimental data, and this IMHO is all in Rossi will to supply or not.

parallel · Post by **parallel** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:22 pm

The usual suspects are jumping in with firm conclusions that the E-Cat doesn't work when in fact we have no new significant information from Krivit. It would be better to wait a bit. It seems that Rossi has little incentive to please the bloggers.

Defkalion have announced they will be holding a press conference on June 23rd.
http://www.e-catworld.com/2011/06/17/de ... onference/

I note they are trying to avoid the words nuclear and fusion - sadly, for obvious reasons.

The press conference will comprise of undisclosed to-date information relating the technology’s commercial and industrial applications, the company’s strategic placements, as well as commercial issues that are of interest not only to Defkalion’s future customers, but also to the political society of our country. It goes without saying that such an important development also possesses a strong international dimension in many aspects.

Carl White · Post by **Carl White** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:24 pm

parallel wrote:Krivit has now posted a "status report" on his report.
http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/06/ ... -and-levi/

Hrm. I'm not sure how wise or considerate it was for Krivit to include the address of the facility.

chrismb · Post by **chrismb** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:31 pm

parallel wrote:The usual suspects are jumping in with firm conclusions that the E-Cat doesn't work when in fact we have no new significant information from Krivit. It would be better to wait a bit. It seems that Rossi has little incentive to please the bloggers.

...But conclusions can be drawn about Rossi from his response, if not 'the E-cat'.

Like I intimated to kite, this whole thing has been made to be about more than just the device.

Giorgio · Post by **Giorgio** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:33 pm

Carl White wrote:
parallel wrote:Krivit has now posted a "status report" on his report.
http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/06/ ... -and-levi/
Hrm. I'm not sure how wise or considerate it was for Krivit to include the address of the facility.

The address is public and known since the first demo of Rossi.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:58 pm

KitemanSA wrote:
tomclarke wrote: He knows that steam out is inherently flaky.

He is clearly able to do a proper demo, with flow rate higher and no steam.

If he does not do this we must conclude that either he can't (get positive results) or he wants everyone examining his stuff to think it does not work.
OR that he gives not one fig of care what some "scientific hobbyists" on a small fusion related forum think. If his customer wants process steam, just MAYBE he is showing process steam. Gee, what a concept, demonstrate for your customer!

I HATE having to defend this guy against idiotic detractions but such faux fault finding prevents reasonable discussion and I really want reasonable discussion on this.

Please folks, edit your fingertips!

sorry Tom, you just happened to get in the way of a screed. I'll try not to let it happen again. :oops:

Uh. So he is only selling to people who need steam and those who need hot water are out of luck?

I suppose it is possible. Maybe the hot water market is not big enough.

Seriously K. This is not up to your usual standards.

seedload · Post by **seedload** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:22 pm

Giorgio wrote:
Carl White wrote:
parallel wrote:Krivit has now posted a "status report" on his report.
http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/06/ ... -and-levi/
Hrm. I'm not sure how wise or considerate it was for Krivit to include the address of the facility.
The address is public and known since the first demo of Rossi.

Another 'factory' apparently, at least according to Rossi. But, Rossi calls everything a factory. Maybe it is a language thing on his part.

Rossi Brother's Tires huh? http://www.fllirossi-tyre.com/

I guess I am the only one concerned that all of these companies/facilities/offices are either something else or nothing at all.

I guess I am the only one concerned about why there are even all of these 'companies' in the first place.

Carl White · Post by **Carl White** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:25 pm

Giorgio wrote:
Carl White wrote:
parallel wrote:Krivit has now posted a "status report" on his report.
http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/06/ ... -and-levi/
Hrm. I'm not sure how wise or considerate it was for Krivit to include the address of the facility.
The address is public and known since the first demo of Rossi.

Have you felt tempted to pay a visit?

EDIT: Nothing is really evident using Google Map street view.