10KW LENR Demonstrator?

[Giorgio]

I'm still surprised that no-one hasn't yet drawn the link with BlakcLight power - both claim loads of energy from Ni and H, the only difference lies within the decrepid theorising they've both wheeled out.

Blacklight actually theorized something and this made it easy to point out the obvious fallacies in their theories.
Rossi is refusing (or not caring) to theorize anything and this renders impossible to make any comparison with Blacklight and leaves room for a whole bunch of speculations.
I think that not theorizing anything is probably Rossi biggest weapon at the moment. He does not expose his personal ideas to scientific scrutiny, he leaves to his minions the job of finding a good theory to fit his claims and, at the same time, he distracts the attention from the lack of scientific method that was used in obtaining the results.

[Giorgio]

The only way something that obvious could be missed is if ALL the participants were idiots - which they were not.

This is just wishful thinking. Most of the times the best scams are done with the trick in plain view of everyone.
To really judge his (or anyone else) claims you must be able to make a critical analysis of the test and the related set up.

[ladajo]

Something has got to give with Rossi here soon. He can only string folks along so far.
He cannot hope to get the big corporate contracts and cash and run away quietly like an embezzler in the night. They would hunt him down like a rabid dog with lawyers and whatnot.

It is like Obama's birth certificate, plenty of argument, but at the end of the day (today) he tabled it, and other than the scandle of his 18year old mother getting pregnant at 17 to a 25 year old Kenyan College Bum, and potential questions about the marraige timing...the fact is, he was born in the US to a US parent. With Rossi, the fact is going to be he is making more energy "burning" a fuel than what it takes to make the fuel and run the unit. I think the argument against him at this point should focus on just what it costs and how to make the "fuel". I doubt he is pulling a fast one with the table hardware.

[Maui]

Something has got to give with Rossi here soon. He can only string folks along so far.
He cannot hope to get the big corporate contracts and cash and run away quietly like an embezzler in the night. They would hunt him down like a rabid dog with lawyers and whatnot.

Last I heard EEStor is still stringing Zenn along quite nicely and I've hear nothing of Weir getting lynched.

It is like Obama's birth certificate, plenty of argument, but at the end of the day (today) he tabled it

If it wasn't "tabled" when he produced it two years ago, what basis do you have to believe its tabled now?

"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible."
- Stuart Chase

[ladajo]

Something has got to give with Rossi here soon. He can only string folks along so far.
He cannot hope to get the big corporate contracts and cash and run away quietly like an embezzler in the night. They would hunt him down like a rabid dog with lawyers and whatnot.

Last I heard EEStor is still stringing Zenn along quite nicely and I've hear nothing of Weir getting lynched.

It is like Obama's birth certificate, plenty of argument, but at the end of the day (today) he tabled it

If it wasn't "tabled" when he produced it two years ago, what basis do you have to believe its tabled now?

"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible."
- Stuart Chase

Dude, did you see the news today?

[Ivy Matt]

Did you see the news two years ago? Actually, it was almost three years now. Although, the way he tabled it was rather bizarre. It just sort of appeared randomly as an image file on a few far left-wing websites. Eventually the Obama campaign said, yeah, that's his birth certificate, but by then suspicious folks were giving the image the same sort of analysis they're giving today's release. New media is nice and all, but I don't think it's the proper forum for official documents. Speaking of proper forums....

Anyway, Blacklight Power has been mentioned, both directly and indirectly (i.e., "hydrinos"), various times earlier in this thread.

[chrismb]

"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible."
- Stuart Chase

A catch-line for this website? Could we get it put under the page header?

[KitemanSA]

"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible."
- Stuart Chase

A catch-line for this website? Could we get it put under the page header?

Great idea provided you add "for the rest of us it is wait and see, sigh!".

[seedload]

seedload

Various miracles are left as an exercise for the reader.

I seems likely that standard particle physics will not be able to explain it.
It is probably time conventional nuclear physics was shaken up anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I am interested in this stuff. I do not rule out the possibility of LENR type reactions that we don't understand.

There may be some way of overcoming the Coulomb Barrier that is not yet known/understood. Muon catalyzed fusion should at least open our eyes to the possibility that there may be other ways to get nucleus close together.

Who knows - micro-hydrogen atoms, short lived neutron imitators, hydride ions doing deep dives, some sort of electrostatic resonance in the metal lattice that does things we don't yet understand - I suppose there could be something.

Maybe it isn't even new physics, but just and unexpected implication of existing physics.

Anything is possible.

But it would be a miracle for sure.
As would Rossi's cheap method of isotopic doping referenced in the link I provided.

The ONLY reason for my post was to point out the fact that Rossi has claimed that he has a way of enhancing Ni62 and Ni64 cheaply, a point that I didn't see referenced in these 60 pages of posts, as an answer to your question. Maybe it has to do with his biological patent applications.

It is interesting that if he really can get to pure Ni62 and Ni64, then the isotopes of copper ash are a little more explainable.

[parallel]

seedload,

I have a number of doubts about standard particle physics and find it irritating when senior scientists like John R. Huizenga (DOE) are so dogmatic and refuse to even consider the possibility of something new if it goes against their ingrained beliefs.

If you followed the two links I gave in the referenced piece you will have seen that others more skilled than me in this area have better founded doubts.

At the very least, new experimental evidence should be carefully investigated even if the results go against accepted theories. Even if there is no theory to explain it. Huizenga had a major hand in having the US spend (waste?) $30 billion in Tokamac fusion research at the same time refusing even tiny funding of cold fusion. Such pigheadedness should not be rewarded with prizes.

[Kahuna]

Some very interesting information given by Rossi on his blog yesterday:

1. How many e-cats are in continuous operation today? [97]
2. How many geographic locations are e-cats running today? [4]
3. Are there any e-cats running in the US with businesses you own or individuals you trust? [Yes]
4. Any estimate on how much fuel has been spent over the life of your research? [Less than if I was taxist]
5. Is there anything confidential about how you use electrolysis for the reactor is is that industry standard technology?

If true, this leaves little room for minor experimental measurment errors causing self-delusion on Rossi's part. Perhaps he really is ready for commercialization. If not true, he is telling a gigantic whopper here.

I must say this is looking less and less like a scam. IMO Rossi has too many reputable people involved for it to be a conspiracy. He now has three major Universities with E-Cats to test and many academics with their reputations on the line if they back a fraud. He has only his own money at risk in the R&D and his commercial contracts call for payment only if the products perform. He knows that the the Cold Fusion/LENR association constitute two strikes against him at the outset with the orthodox physics community and moves forward anyway. Lets face it, this is really no way to run a good scam.

On the negative side, the public demos have been a bit sloppy, the claims sound too good to be true, Rossi has had some past run-ins with the law, and there is no credible scientific theory to explain the claims. I suppose all the negatives could be overcome in the fullness of time although some would require the rewrite of a few esteemed textbooks.

[ladajo]

We shall see.

[painlord2k]

Rossi has had some past run-ins with the law, and there is no credible scientific theory to explain the claims. I suppose all the negatives could be overcome in the fullness of time although some would require the rewrite of a few esteemed textbooks.

The past run in with the law of Rossi is not to be unexpected in Italy.
The laws were changed, so what Rossi did (using waste like grease and waste oil to produce biodiesel) become unlawful in a day. What he did was continuously monitored by the Guardia di Finanza that is in charge to control the fuel production, taxes and like. Even the people buying his products from him was put under trial for disposing of "toxic wastes". This the day after. Until the day before it was fuel that pay large taxes to the government and was monitored daily by the GdF (samples taken and analyzed in the GdF labs).

[AcesHigh]

I have a number of doubts about standard particle physics and find it irritating when senior scientists like John R. Huizenga (DOE) are so dogmatic and refuse to even consider the possibility of something new if it goes against their ingrained beliefs.

the history of particle physics in the 20th century has been all new brilliant physicists coming with new theories only to be called idiots by older, dogmatic scientists, but then, proving they were right anyway.

example: Einstein and the other classicals being beaten at the Copenhagen Convention. Years later, those same people who had beaten Einstein (Bohr, Heisenberg) were dogmatic themselves and Bohr called Feyman an idiot for daring to use diagrams to represent particles, which they thought should be described only mathematically, never graphically, etc, etc.



its quite probable there are still many things to be discovered about atoms behaviour, but certainly, a lot of people will still be called idiots for daring to suggest them.

[TallDave]

I keep seeing nickel in these things, and I keep thinking of Tom's recollection of Bussard thinking the LENRs were transmuting in a relatively obscure but not very useful reaction.

As best I can tell, none of them are producing energy long enough to have the mechanisms proponents claim, which is why you don't see Blacklight power stations in your neighborhood. As I haven't had one running continuously for several years myself, I can't say for sure, but I'd be betting that over the long term these kinds of devices will tend to mysteriously stop producing energy.

I tend be leery of one-off performances because I can't explain half of what David Copperfield does either, and I think of the old stories about medieval alchemists who would do something like dissolve gold in mercury and then plate an object and claim it was transmuted to solid gold, and be on their way with payment before a more detailed examination could be done.

I can always hope I'm wrong, though, even if I'm not buying nickel futures. Best of luck to Rossi.

Rossi claims he has an agreement with the newly formed Greek company Defkalion Green Technologies as his first client.[16][17] According to the agreement Rossi will supposedly deliver a one megawatt heating plant, consisting of 300 reactors of 4 kW [11] connected in series and parallel. The plant which would supply heating for Defkalion's own purposes only, is supposed to be inaugurated in October 2011. [18]

Rossi claims he will not be paid by Defkalion until the installation is delivered and works.[19] The company’s spokesman Symeon Tsalikoglou has confirmed the agreement.[20][21]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Catalyzer

As noted above, we shall see.