What is the state of decelerator R&D?

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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jmc
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Postby jmc » Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:00 am


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Postby chrismb » Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:38 pm


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Postby KitemanSA » Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:12 pm


chrismb
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Postby chrismb » Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:51 pm


jsbiff
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Postby jsbiff » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:09 pm


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Postby Aero » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:26 pm

Aero

jsbiff
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Postby jsbiff » Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:15 pm


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Postby rjaypeters » Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:26 pm

"Aqaba! By Land!" T. E. Lawrence

R. Peters

D Tibbets
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Postby D Tibbets » Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:55 pm

To error is human... and I'm very human.

chrismb
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Postby chrismb » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:05 pm


Aero
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Postby Aero » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:18 pm

Aero

D Tibbets
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Postby D Tibbets » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:56 pm

To error is human... and I'm very human.

chrismb
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Postby chrismb » Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:02 pm

jsbiff, Aero, I think you're both getting into recognising the importance of being specific about terminology. But it's a bit much to watch you both wandering around the definitions of things!

jsbiff, your question is actually more relevant that, perhaps, you might know. The issue for an 'efficient' fusion reaction is that the energy fed into it is less than the energy out. But for that to be an energy out that can be converted to usable 'primary' energy, it has to be a sufficient multiple of the energy in to clear it of the conversion inefficiencies. For example, a 30% thermal plant would not generate ANY net energy if the energy out were less than 3 times the energy in. Similarly, a plant that can't deliver a few multiples out, net, than is put in isn't much use. So that adds up to a minimum Q of around 10, in all practical terms. If a Q=10 is achievable from a device, then, yet, what you are saying is largely correct. The actual inefficient consumption of D would become a triviality. But drop below Q=3 and it is no longer just a matter of inefficient usage, it may well be a matter of non-viability.

Aero, in terms of 'wanting the max efficiency', I think you prob know (but I'll repeat in context here) that this is not the be-all-end-all. Let's say that you could construct an 80% efficient plant, that doesn't mean, at all, that you can efficiently pump GW through it. The GW power station that puts out most power and build to a given budget on a given amount of land, may not necessarily be the most efficient.

Indeed, most plants are built to run up to around 550C, the softening point for stainless steels. This then imposes a 30%, or so , efficiency on a thermal power plant. Run higher temps, and your efficiency goes up, but that may be more costly and the equipment to manage the higher temperatures may actually be more bulky that the less efficient plant. So we want the max energy out versus total equipment required [be that by cost, land usage, bulk tonnage of equipment, whatever your criteria].

So I think what you are both looking for here is 'specific net-power output', which may or may not necessarily be related to efficiency. It is true to say that it generally is related, but who can really say, for a new technology. In any case, below Q=3 for fusion it doesn't matter because it is so close to non-viability it is a poor prospect, and above Q=10 it begins not to really matter that much.

D Tibbets
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Postby D Tibbets » Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:13 pm

To error is human... and I'm very human.

Enginerd
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Postby Enginerd » Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:26 pm

Last edited by Enginerd on Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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