10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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Axil
Posts: 935
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:34 am

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by Axil »

http://www.lenr-forum.com/showthread.ph ... h-Agoravox

Hello,

I am a Foreign Trade Advisor and live in Italy for 30 years.

I am a friend of the Technical Director of Defkalion Europe in Milan, Luca Gamberale, who did me the honor of a demonstration of reactor R5. Impressive.

The "R5" reactor is small in size (approx 60 x 40 x 30). A very small amount of nickel and hydrogen (a few grams) are introduced into the heart of the reactor (sufficient to ensure a continuous cycle of 6 months). intake power (1.5 kW) will produce about 4.5 kilowatts of thermal energy, the reactor temperature can reach, in principle, the melting point of nickel (1,453 ° C). The temperature limit is given by the materials that make up the reactor, and have a degree of complexity which will focus on the engineering of next month effort. Currently, the temperatures obtained are of the order of 600 ° C in the secondary circuit through the use of appropriate thermal fluids.

The reactor can be activated and deactivated in a short period of time and the reaction is quite mastered (about 20 to 30 minutes after start). the charge of the reactor can last six months of continuous operation and the product of the reaction is mainly copper and other metals not harmful to health and the environment.

Difference between R5 compared to the E-Cat model E Corp. Leonardo. (Machine Rossi) is radical.
Indeed, while the exothermic reaction in the E-Cat is controlled by the presence of a catalyst in the reaction R5 is triggered and modulated by a plasma discharge to very specific characteristics. It is precisely the presence of this discharge that allows a smooth and stable control of the reaction. R5 (soon to be replaced by the R6, a reactor substantially equivalent to R5 but with better performance) can easily be used to work in parallel to achieve any desired power, up to a few megawatts. It is easily understood that the cost per kWh is lower than any primary source currently available.

Sincerely,

Frederic Gilardone
Who is Frederic Gilardone



"Frederic Gilardone" "foreign trade" : lots of legitimate hits

Frederic GILARDONE, MILANO, Bankwesen, Versicherungen, Energiewirtschaft, ... Councilman (Foreign trade) at the French Embassy in Rome.

...

Frederic Gilardone. GEB-SOLUTIONS, Country Manager ... Junior export manager, Italian Institute for Foreign Trade - Rome.

etc etc

seedload
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:16 pm

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by seedload »

KitemanSA wrote:
seedload wrote:my understanding is that quasiparticles aren't real things. They are emergent phenomena resulting from other particles behaving in coordinated ways. ... So, when I hear that a polariton is escorting a proton into a nucleus, I just shake my head ....
Actually, I believe I said that an electron may escort a proton to the nucleus. For example, one type of polariton is an exciton polariton where electron/hole pairs form the polariton. Might it be possible for a proton to substitute for a hole in one or more of the pairs in the matrix and be moved along with it? If so, can the electron/proton pair (not an atom of fermionic nature, but a bosonic pair) get close enough to a Nickel nucleus for the strong force to pull the proton in? If so, how does that effect the electron in the pair and the rest of the polariton? Just some thoughts.
Ummm... no.

A hole isn't a real thing. It is the absence of an electron in a system otherwise full of electrons. The hole moves when the real things, the electrons, shift around due the the absense of one electron. The hole can be conceptualized as a particle moving predictably in a cohesive system, and it can be given a positive charge (absense of a negative charge where one should be), but this conseptualization only works because the system was otherwise cohesive. An exciton quasiparticle is an excitation (by a photon) that drives an electron out of the valance band into the conductive band leaving behind a hole. The hole and the electron are bound electrostaticly. The exciton can move around, but this doesn't mean that the electron/hole are moving together, this means that the excitation is moving, ie the electron is going back to to valance band (filling the hole) and another nearby one is going to the conductive band leaving a hole, and so on.

If you substitute a proton for a hole, you no longer have a cohesive system and you no longer have an imaginary something to move, you have a real thing - a proton - which behaves the same was that a proton should behave.

Going back to my analogy of the stadium, the idea of substituting a proton for a hole is the equivelent of substituting the emergent behavior of the wave with a real wave. The fake wave stops and everyone gets wet.
Stick the thing in a tub of water! Sheesh!

Stubby
Posts: 877
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:05 pm

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by Stubby »

Axil wrote:http://www.lenr-forum.com/showthread.ph ... h-Agoravox

Hello,

I am a Foreign Trade Advisor and live in Italy for 30 years.

I am a friend of the Technical Director of Defkalion Europe in Milan, Luca Gamberale, who did me the honor of a demonstration of reactor R5. Impressive.

The "R5" reactor is small in size (approx 60 x 40 x 30). A very small amount of nickel and hydrogen (a few grams) are introduced into the heart of the reactor (sufficient to ensure a continuous cycle of 6 months). intake power (1.5 kW) will produce about 4.5 kilowatts of thermal energy, the reactor temperature can reach, in principle, the melting point of nickel (1,453 ° C). The temperature limit is given by the materials that make up the reactor, and have a degree of complexity which will focus on the engineering of next month effort. Currently, the temperatures obtained are of the order of 600 ° C in the secondary circuit through the use of appropriate thermal fluids.

The reactor can be activated and deactivated in a short period of time and the reaction is quite mastered (about 20 to 30 minutes after start). the charge of the reactor can last six months of continuous operation and the product of the reaction is mainly copper and other metals not harmful to health and the environment.

Difference between R5 compared to the E-Cat model E Corp. Leonardo. (Machine Rossi) is radical.
Indeed, while the exothermic reaction in the E-Cat is controlled by the presence of a catalyst in the reaction R5 is triggered and modulated by a plasma discharge to very specific characteristics. It is precisely the presence of this discharge that allows a smooth and stable control of the reaction. R5 (soon to be replaced by the R6, a reactor substantially equivalent to R5 but with better performance) can easily be used to work in parallel to achieve any desired power, up to a few megawatts. It is easily understood that the cost per kWh is lower than any primary source currently available.

Sincerely,

Frederic Gilardone
Who is Frederic Gilardone



"Frederic Gilardone" "foreign trade" : lots of legitimate hits

Frederic GILARDONE, MILANO, Bankwesen, Versicherungen, Energiewirtschaft, ... Councilman (Foreign trade) at the French Embassy in Rome.

...

Frederic Gilardone. GEB-SOLUTIONS, Country Manager ... Junior export manager, Italian Institute for Foreign Trade - Rome.

etc etc
The Italian equivalent of Jim Smith?
Everything is bullshit unless proven otherwise. -A.C. Beddoe

ladajo
Posts: 6204
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by ladajo »

the exothermic reaction in the E-Cat is controlled by the presence of a catalyst in the reaction
Apparently Mr. Gilardone did not get Rossi's memo that there is no catalyst.

Also, it is all good that this is posted, but is the posting source vetted to be the actual guy, and what is his current capacity (who is he in bed with?) if it is him.

People never pretend to be other people on the internet while posting in Forums.

If you would like, tomorrow I will change my name to Bill Gates, and post here about how great it is to be silly rich.

Sincerely,
Bill Gates.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

seedload
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:16 pm

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by seedload »

AND HERE IS AN UPDATE OF TODAY, JULY 8TH:
The past three days have been holidays for most, but for us have been a tremendous period of work during which we made a historic page for what concerns our tech: for the first time, an E-Cat module, entirely produced by our USA Partner in the new factory ( a magnificence), charged with the charge made by the Partner’s CEO, using the materials we teached to buy, prepare,manipulate, treat, to make the charges, assembled , insulated, has started its operation, and the results are the same of the E-Cats built by us. This event means that for the first time an E-Cat not built by me, not controlled by me and not charged by me, not tested in my factory, but manufactured from third parties upon our instructions and know how has worked properly. This is the first unit of the plant that will give to the factory of our USA Partner all its necessary thermal energy, and is also the school ship for the employees. It is very important that it has been completely made by the Customer, not by me: it is the first of millions, but the first is always special. We celebrated with Coca Cola ( alcohol is forbidden in that factory). All the former plants, even if built in the USA, had been supplied with reactors cores made by me, so this is a very important step.
Rossi just sent them a prototype in May. I am struggling because I thought the USA Partner was going to engineer this to be producible. They want to make millions of these things. In my estimation, they would have to inspect and understand the designs and the prototype, they would have to engineer a design to reduce cost and make it ready for mass production, they would have to go through all of the procurement headaches to get parts, they would have to design the line to put the thing together, they would have to come up with the factory processes and test procedures, and they would have to get it all going before having a first article to show off. All this while simultaneously organizing and orchestrating the industrial process required to make the 'charge'. Two months, huh? Pretty amazing.

I don't know, maybe they had all the designs a long time ago and worked from them. If so, I wonder why Rossi shipping the proto to the US was considered such a milestone.

Or maybe they are just using Rossi's design as is. Millions of units of boxes wrapped in bubble wrap and tin foil stacked on shelves.
Stick the thing in a tub of water! Sheesh!

paperburn1
Posts: 2466
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:53 am
Location: Third rock from the sun.

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by paperburn1 »

Next is to announce that due to unforeseen circumstance production must be stopped and it will affect EU as well so sorry all you Swedish/ German investors . As soon as we can get a new plant functioning then we will work on refunding your money if you wish to de-invest. Or for a few more dollars we can have you a partner on the ground floor of our new company. Lucky you!
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

JoeP
Posts: 520
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:10 am

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by JoeP »

I am picturing two or three guys in a machine shop somewhere at most as the "factory." It would be interesting if some sleuth could dig up where this is.

seedload
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:16 pm

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by seedload »

JoeP wrote:I am picturing two or three guys in a machine shop somewhere at most as the "factory." It would be interesting if some sleuth could dig up where this is.
Well, Rossi claims that his US Partner has put a commitment of at least 100 million into ECAT production...
1) Do you foresee that research to improve the e-Cat will continue to be your main goal for the rest of this year?. It seems to me that with an investment of around $100 million you could start mass production of the industrial e-Cats;
2) Is the commitment of your US partner of this size?

1- yes
2- yes
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Either it is three guys in a machine shop with no 100 million dollar commitment or it is a big company making 100 million dollar robotic assembly lines for mass production of millions of ECATs and there is no way they got it done in a month and a half from being delivered the prototype.
Stick the thing in a tub of water! Sheesh!

KitemanSA
Posts: 6114
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:05 pm
Location: OlyPen WA

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by KitemanSA »

seedload wrote:
KitemanSA wrote:
seedload wrote:my understanding is that quasiparticles aren't real things. They are emergent phenomena resulting from other particles behaving in coordinated ways. ... So, when I hear that a polariton is escorting a proton into a nucleus, I just shake my head ....
Actually, I believe I said that an electron may escort a proton to the nucleus. For example, one type of polariton is an exciton polariton where electron/hole pairs form the polariton. Might it be possible for a proton to substitute for a hole in one or more of the pairs in the matrix and be moved along with it? If so, can the electron/proton pair (not an atom of fermionic nature, but a bosonic pair) get close enough to a Nickel nucleus for the strong force to pull the proton in? If so, how does that effect the electron in the pair and the rest of the polariton? Just some thoughts.
Ummm... no.
Umm, you don't know. Neither do I.

chrismb
Posts: 3161
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:00 pm

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by chrismb »

KitemanSA wrote:I believe I said that an electron may escort a proton to the nucleus. For example, one type of polariton is an exciton polariton where electron/hole pairs form the polariton. Might it be possible for a proton to substitute for a hole in one or more of the pairs in the matrix and be moved along with it? If so, can the electron/proton pair (not an atom of fermionic nature, but a bosonic pair) get close enough to a Nickel nucleus for the strong force to pull the proton in? If so, how does that effect the electron in the pair and the rest of the polariton? Just some thoughts.
Caution: Post-modern science at work!

A fantasy solution to a phenomena never yet observed.

(= science fiction.)

KitemanSA
Posts: 6114
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:05 pm
Location: OlyPen WA

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by KitemanSA »

chrismb wrote:(= science fiction.)
Unless it is unknown science fact.

chrismb
Posts: 3161
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:00 pm

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by chrismb »

KitemanSA wrote:
chrismb wrote:(= science fiction.)
Unless it is unknown science fact.
The discussion of the possible application of unknown, speculated, science fact is science fiction.

Much science fiction has come into being. There is nothing wrong with science fiction, as long as it is know and understood to be so, and is known to promote real scientific interest and activity. Nice! No problem.

This is the whole point that chrismb has previously tried to describe - the acceptance of science fiction as being 'science' of the same merit as scientific fact is exactly what he meant by 'post-modern science'.

In this case, Rossi does not say 'my work is science fiction, and I am making further practical investigations to see if it is, actually, fact', which he could, and probably should. If he were to do so, the veracity of his position would be unassailable.

But he doesn't. He claims it as fact. This is why chrismb left this forum - because science fiction was, and is, here continually being posited as if it were equivalent to scientific fact.

KitemanSA
Posts: 6114
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:05 pm
Location: OlyPen WA

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by KitemanSA »

chrismb wrote: In this case, Rossi does not say 'my work is science fiction, and I am making further practical investigations to see if it is, actually, fact', which he could, and probably should. If he were to do so, the veracity of his position would be unassailable.

But he doesn't. He claims it as fact. This is why chrismb left this forum - because science fiction was, and is, here continually being posited as if it were equivalent to scientific fact.
That, at least in my regard, is where you have it wrong. I posit NOTHING wrt this topic as fact.

For me, there is a guy who says, "I can make this stuff do this valuable thing. I think it works like this. No I will not give away my secret on how I do this valuable thing". And then there are these guys saying, "I know everything there is to know about the way the world works and it doesn't permit that valuable thing to work, ... and he cheated on his taxes so that proves he is lying about this". Sorry, but I find neither of these thought processes very convincing.

Axil and others keep providing interesting tidbits in support of Rossi and LENR, you and others keep tantrumming that it can't work and he's a liar which proves that it can't work. Neither very convincing.

seedload
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:16 pm

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by seedload »

KitemanSA wrote:
seedload wrote:
KitemanSA wrote:Actually, I believe I said that an electron may escort a proton to the nucleus. For example, one type of polariton is an exciton polariton where electron/hole pairs form the polariton. Might it be possible for a proton to substitute for a hole in one or more of the pairs in the matrix and be moved along with it? If so, can the electron/proton pair (not an atom of fermionic nature, but a bosonic pair) get close enough to a Nickel nucleus for the strong force to pull the proton in? If so, how does that effect the electron in the pair and the rest of the polariton? Just some thoughts.
Ummm... no.
Umm, you don't know. Neither do I.
If I had JUST said, "Ummm... no." then your response would make sense. But I didn't. So your response is just another example you being pridefully impossible.

You posit fantasy and when someone takes the time to discuss why they believe it to be fantasy, you ignore the response and get snarky.
Stick the thing in a tub of water! Sheesh!

seedload
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:16 pm

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by seedload »

KitemanSA wrote:there are these guys saying, "I know everything there is to know about the way the world works and it doesn't permit that valuable thing to work, ... and he cheated on his taxes so that proves he is lying about this".
BS. No one is saying such things. You are totally misrepresenting what other people are saying. This is just another example of you being pridefully impossible.

I don't think anyone has said that it is impossible for LENR to work. No one has said that they know 'everything' about the way the world works. No one has said that his getting caught lying before proves that he is lying about this.

What people are saying, to my interpretation, is that there are definitive examples of things that Rossi claims that don't make sense and don't add up. They are detailing why these things don't add up. They are noting the huge number of these things. And, finally, they are concluding that he is lying. It's called common sense.

The opposite approach would be to accept everything as possible, by whatever convenient excuse or invented fanciful theory, thereby negating all contrary evidence until you are devoid of common sense, acting totally irrationally, and arguing for the sake of arguing. The final state of this approach is one where you are left in a constant state of derisive dispute with almost everything the reasonable people around you are trying to say while simultaneously giving ultimate and unlimited benefit of the doubt to the quack that got this whole ball rolling.
Stick the thing in a tub of water! Sheesh!

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