10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

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seedload
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:16 pm

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by seedload »

TallDave wrote:
Axil wrote:Defka​lion webcast officially confirmed
Thanks Axil, interesting Rossi quote there:
"This event means that for the first time an E-Cat is not built by me, not checked by me, not loaded by me and not tested in my factory, but assembled by third parties to our instructions and knowledge, it worked properly, "he written, the Italian inventor on his blog.
Did they steal Rossi's secret heat inducer? Maybe Randi will find out...
To be fair to Rossi (did I just say that?), the Rossi quote above wasn't about Defkalion, it was about an ECAT made by his "USA Partner". He is referring to the fact that his undisclosed US partner, which is doing the production for him, has learned how to produce his ECATs and charges, and has produced one that works. Rossi and Defkalion are supposed to have parted ways and Defkalion is basically a competitor of Rossi's now.
Stick the thing in a tub of water! Sheesh!

Axil
Posts: 935
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:34 am

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by Axil »

ICCF Prgram updated :

http://iccf18.research.missouri.edu/program.php

Tuesday :
9:00 - 9:10 am Demonstration: Defkalion Reactor Startup
2:30 - 3:00 pm Demonstration: Defkalion Questions and Answers
5:30 - 5:40 pm Demonstration: Defkalion Closing Remarks

Joseph Chikva
Posts: 2039
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:30 am

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by Joseph Chikva »

TallDave wrote:Magic vaporizing beans sold separately, I presume. :)
Does not matter what you presume.
Discussing how much energy Rossi device produces you should know existnce of so calle "latent heat"
there are scenarios during which energy transfer between system and its surroundings does not result in the change in temperature of the system. This occurs whenever system changes from one of its phase to the another or we can say that when the transfer of energy results in the change in the physical properties of the system .


This change is termed as Phase Change or Phase Transition. Two main Phase transitions are

1.Solid to Liquid
2.Liquid to Gas
And if I recall number correctly, for temperature rise till boiling point (100 C deg) there was needed only 500W, there was resistive heater 750W (so, 250W exess power for vaporization of only fraction of input water). Also recall that some power there will come from chemical reaction of formulation of Nickel Hydride.
And Rossi cried "snakes" when he was asked about humidity of steam.
As 5 kW of produced power there is possible when the system produces absolutely dry steam with no liquid phase.

ladajo
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Location: North East Coast

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by ladajo »

Joseph,
Have you ever heard of Superheat? That is also a "hidden" energy storage method. Ever see a pressure gauge on Rossi's Rig?
In any event, his isolated Ecat module is not really conducive for latent or superheat. I do not think the volume is sufficient. But to be fair, he is using some hefty steel. And he could fill it with water and get some good superheat going using the "resistive heaters". It would have to get to 704F and 3200psi to reach the Critical Point.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

seedload
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:16 pm

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by seedload »

The existence of Defkalion has been a bit confusing to me because of my personal conclusion that Rossi is a scam. The story is that Rossi was working with Defkalion and that they parted ways acrimoniously with Defkalion taking his technology, improving upon it, and beginning to produce it themselves. So, if I am to remain convinced that Rossi is a scam, then the only ways I can explain the continued existence of Defkalion are (1) they are part of the scam, still linked to Rossi behind the scenes or (2) they are a spin-off scam with actual separate and distinct actors from Rossi. The other possibility is that (3) Rossi really has found something and Defkalion is a real entity that has stolen his secret.

For those who don't believe Rossi and suspect scam, how do you explain the existence of Defkalion? Have I missed a possibility?

For those that believe Rossi, do you also believe that Defkalion is legitimate and that they have the necessary information to make Rossi like devices?

For those that maintain the possibility that Rossi is deluded, how can you explain the existence of Defkalion within the deluded context?
Stick the thing in a tub of water! Sheesh!

paperburn1
Posts: 2484
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:53 am
Location: Third rock from the sun.

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by paperburn1 »

most scams get copied many times in various forms, especially the successful ones.
Adoption Scams
Advance Fee Schemes
Anti-Aging Product Fraud
ATM Skimming
Bankruptcy Fraud
Corporate Fraud
Credit Card Fraud
Financial Institution Fraud
Foreclosure Fraud
Funeral Fraud
Gameover Malware
Grandparent Scam
Health Care Fraud
Hedge Fund Fraud
House Stealing
Identity Theft
Insider Trading
Insurance Fraud
Internet Fraud
Internet Pharmacy Fraud
Investment Fraud
Jury Duty Scam
Letter of Credit Fraud
Lottery Scams
Mass Marketing Fraud
Mortgage Fraud
Natural Disaster Fraud
Nigerian Letter or “419” Fraud
Online Auction Fraud
Online Auto Auction Fraud
Online Dating Scams
Online Rental Housing Scheme
Phishing
Ponzi Schemes
Prime Bank Note Fraud
Pump-and-Dump Stock Scheme
Pyramid Schemes
Ransomware
Redemption/Strawman/Bond Fraud
Reverse Mortgage Scams
Scareware
Securities and Commodities Fraud
Senior Citizen Fraud
Smishing
Social Security Card Fraud
Spear Phishing
Sports Memorabilia Fraud
Staged Auto Accident Fraud
Stock Options Backdating
Surrogacy Scam
Swatting
Telemarketing Fraud
Telephone Denial of Service Fraud
Timeshare Schemes
Vishing
Work-at-Home Scams
need I say more......
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

ladajo
Posts: 6258
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by ladajo »

I had a good one yesterday. Someone called my house with a fishy foreign accent, blocked number and ID, and said, "we are receiving unexplained network errors from your computer. Could you please go to it and turn it on so we can check it".

At the time in my house, three laptops, a PS3, two smartphones, two Ipods, a Nook and an IPAD were online with my wireless router.

I hung up.

I am sure the next step would have been to go to some website and either "enter your login and password please" or please fill out the form so we can verify your account information.

I pity the uninformed.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

Axil
Posts: 935
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:34 am

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by Axil »

Hats off to Alan Fletcher for this update


ICCF Program updated : (posted earlier)

http://iccf18.research.missouri.edu/program.php

Tuesday :
9:00 - 9:10 am Demonstration: Defkalion Reactor Startup
2:30 - 3:00 pm Demonstration: Defkalion Questions and Answers
5:30 - 5:40 pm Demonstration: Defkalion Closing Remarks

Hints of a LIVE webcast from ICCF-18

http://www.e-catworld.com/2013/07/defka ... ast-links/

Defkalion Webcast Links
July 19, 2013
By admin

Thanks to ECW reader Veblin for providing the following links to the Defkalion Webcast that is scheduled to begin on Monday. I thought it would be good to have them in a post for people to refer to and bookmark.

Defkalion Upcoming & Live Events

http://new.livestream.com/triwu2

Defkalion Europe – Milan
Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:00am EDT — Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:00am EDT

http://new.livestream.com/triwu2/Defkalion-ita

Defkalion – ICCF-18

Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:00am EDT — Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:00pm EDT

http://new.livestream.com/triwu2/Defkalion-US

Joseph Chikva
Posts: 2039
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:30 am

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by Joseph Chikva »

ladajo wrote:In any event, his isolated Ecat module is not really conducive for latent or superheat.
Latent heat of vaporization is a feature of any liquid is that entering in Rossi device or anywhere. When phase transition from liquid to gas occurs substance adsorbs heat without change of temperature.

paperburn1
Posts: 2484
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:53 am
Location: Third rock from the sun.

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by paperburn1 »

How about a solid, like a aluminum core, has the same heat capacity as water??
Disclaimer : no math was done with this idea just something that popped into my head.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

JoeP
Posts: 523
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:10 am

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by JoeP »

seedload wrote:The existence of Defkalion has been a bit confusing to me because of my personal conclusion that Rossi is a scam. The story is that Rossi was working with Defkalion and that they parted ways acrimoniously with Defkalion taking his technology, improving upon it, and beginning to produce it themselves. So, if I am to remain convinced that Rossi is a scam, then the only ways I can explain the continued existence of Defkalion are (1) they are part of the scam, still linked to Rossi behind the scenes or (2) they are a spin-off scam with actual separate and distinct actors from Rossi. The other possibility is that (3) Rossi really has found something and Defkalion is a real entity that has stolen his secret.

For those who don't believe Rossi and suspect scam, how do you explain the existence of Defkalion? Have I missed a possibility?

For those that believe Rossi, do you also believe that Defkalion is legitimate and that they have the necessary information to make Rossi like devices?

For those that maintain the possibility that Rossi is deluded, how can you explain the existence of Defkalion within the deluded context?
In the last scenario, Rossi has a device that appears to produce some excess heat for a limited period of time, like the Blacklight Power devices. We do not know if it is chemical, energy storage, whatever, these could also be combined and with measurement errors. Useless or not, he convinced himself that this is a new energy source as his designs were modeled after his friend Focardi's experiments. Defkalion was also able to replicate a device (after working with Rossi) that behaves in a similar way -- again, for a limited run time and with all the same problems.

ladajo
Posts: 6258
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by ladajo »

Joseph Chikva wrote:
ladajo wrote:In any event, his isolated Ecat module is not really conducive for latent or superheat.
Latent heat of vaporization is a feature of any liquid is that entering in Rossi device or anywhere. When phase transition from liquid to gas occurs substance adsorbs heat without change of temperature.
Joe,
The latest test were on an isolated, no flow device. I think you missed the point. No fluid goes-in or goes out.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

ladajo
Posts: 6258
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by ladajo »

paperburn1 wrote:How about a solid, like a aluminum core, has the same heat capacity as water??
Disclaimer : no math was done with this idea just something that popped into my head.
technically, you can superheat anything. The point is preventing the phase change. Water for instance has a triple point.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

Axil
Posts: 935
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:34 am

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by Axil »

paperburn1 wrote:most scams get copied many times in various forms, especially the successful ones.
Adoption Scams
Advance Fee Schemes
Anti-Aging Product Fraud
ATM Skimming
Bankruptcy Fraud
Corporate Fraud
Credit Card Fraud
Financial Institution Fraud
Foreclosure Fraud
Funeral Fraud
Gameover Malware
Grandparent Scam
Health Care Fraud
Hedge Fund Fraud
House Stealing
Identity Theft
Insider Trading
Insurance Fraud
Internet Fraud
Internet Pharmacy Fraud
Investment Fraud
Jury Duty Scam
Letter of Credit Fraud
Lottery Scams
Mass Marketing Fraud
Mortgage Fraud
Natural Disaster Fraud
Nigerian Letter or “419” Fraud
Online Auction Fraud
Online Auto Auction Fraud
Online Dating Scams
Online Rental Housing Scheme
Phishing
Ponzi Schemes
Prime Bank Note Fraud
Pump-and-Dump Stock Scheme
Pyramid Schemes
Ransomware
Redemption/Strawman/Bond Fraud
Reverse Mortgage Scams
Scareware
Securities and Commodities Fraud
Senior Citizen Fraud
Smishing
Social Security Card Fraud
Spear Phishing
Sports Memorabilia Fraud
Staged Auto Accident Fraud
Stock Options Backdating
Surrogacy Scam
Swatting
Telemarketing Fraud
Telephone Denial of Service Fraud
Timeshare Schemes
Vishing
Work-at-Home Scams
need I say more......

After all, isn’t that what good business practice is supposed to do. To survive and prosper, business is compelled by its very nature to extract as much revenue flow from the customer while returning as little value as possible.

Good government, courts, law enforcement, and regulations, impose restriction on business to provide a minimum level of value to the customer. Business pays government to reduce that value minimum to as close to zero as possible. All in Government gets fat and rich as the process progresses.

So said Abraham Lincoln during his debate with Stephen Douglas at Alton, Illinois, on October 15, 1858; Lincoln distilled the politics of tyranny down to its very essence and applied it to tyrants of every age, whether they be kings, slaveholders or today’s cut though capitalists. You do the work and I’ll take what you produce. You are my slave.

In this current age, the politics of tyranny are alive and well. As we watch the debates in Washington and, indeed, in every community across the land, what is the essence of the conversation? One group of people demand that another group “work and toil and earn bread” so that it can be taken and eaten by others. Is this not the very essence of slavery?

All tyrants try to disguise their tyranny and use words like “fairness” to do so. They twist language to make tyranny seem natural and right. Yet it is not and never can be. The struggle between those who believe in liberty and self-government and those believing in regulation and redistribution is nothing more than the same eternal struggle between right and wrong.

As Abraham Lincoln said so well:
That is the real issue. That is the issue that will continue in this country when these poor tongues of Judge Douglas and myself shall be silent. It is the eternal struggle between these two principles — right and wrong — throughout the world. They are the two principles that have stood face to face from the beginning of time, and will ever continue to struggle. The one is the common right of humanity and the other the divine right of kings. It is the same principle in whatever shape it develops itself. It is the same spirit that says, ‘You work and toil and earn bread, and I’ll eat it.’ No matter in what shape it comes, whether from the mouth of a king who seeks to bestride the people of his own nation and live by the fruit of their labor, or from one race of men as an apology for enslaving another race, it is the same tyrannical principle.
When all works as intended, the value minimum gets to zero, they call it free market capitalism; Caveat emptor is its motto.

Under the principle of caveat emptor, the buyer could not recover damages from the seller for defects on the property that rendered the property unfit for ordinary purposes. The only exception was if the seller actively concealed latent defects or otherwise made material misrepresentations amounting to fraud.

Before statutory law, the buyer had no express warranty ensuring the quality of goods. Common law requires that goods must be "fit for the particular purpose" and of "merchantable quality", but this implied warranty can be difficult to enforce and may not apply to all products. Hence, buyers are responsible for the value that is rendered in a product or service.

You are obviously one of those wild eyed knee jerk reactionary liberals who expect government and all its various arms to protect the customer from himself.

The free market must be allowed to work its will on both buyers and sellers of products and services in a process of natural selection in the marketplace. Yes, many will perish both bodily and financially. But those who remain will be stronger for it.

Yes, there will be many customers taught valuable lessons at the feet of the caveat emptor principle, but in the end, cut-throat capitalism will stand aside triumphant over all it surveys.

You cannot hold Rossi above the ordinary traditions and practices of American capitalism. He must be allowed to compete and thrive in the “no holds barred” arena of competitive business as it exists today.

Joseph Chikva
Posts: 2039
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:30 am

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by Joseph Chikva »

ladajo wrote:The latest test were on an isolated, no flow device. I think you missed the point. No fluid goes-in or goes out.
Are you talking about device, producing power of which was measured with the help of thermal imager?
If so, I would propose you to build isolated vessel, to fill that with mix of iron oxide and aluminum powder with not stechiometric ratio and to place also there a resistive heater. Why not stechiometric ratio? Because if stechiometric chemical reaction of formulation iron by aluminum will be too fast.
Then switch on the heater and direct on to vessel thermal imager.
During some not short time depending on ratio of reacting components you will see the very powerful energy release.

Believe me that only discovery of certain substance capable catalyzing nuclear reaction is worth for Nobel Prize. And that is as far as I know not less than several millions USD. I believe that this is rather big amount of money for a person who had not even his own coffee machine in his "office" or "garage" or "production facility".

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