10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

[jratcliff63367]

Guys, I've decided my next article is going to be entitled 'LENR for dummies'. The actual title should be 'The Widom / Larsen Theory For Dummies' but the first title is more catchy.

I get fission. I get fusion. I get E=MC^2. But, for the life of me, I do not 'get' the Widom / Larsen theory. I asked Steven Krivit to explain it to me in laymen terms and he referred me to pages and pages of equations. When I told him the equations were over my head, he said, well, then we have nothing to talk about.

Seriously, can anyone explain the 'Widom / Larsen' theory without equations in a way a layperson can understand using a vocabulary no more advanced than a high school education would require?

I get the impression that even if you have an advanced doctorate degree in theoretical particle physics that the 'Widom / Larsen' theory is a bit daunting to get your head around.

If LENR is 'real', and becomes a 'reality' in the next year, there is going to be a major challenge in communicating the science/theory behind it so the average public can kind of understand. It's so complex, and so difficult, that there is every opportunity for it to be demonized. We already know the America public is easily manipulated by fear, so that shouldn't be too difficult to accomplish.

If it ain't 'fusion' the average Joe is going to ask, well, then what the hell is it?

John

[KitemanSA]

If it ain't 'fusion' the average Joe is going to ask, well, then what the hell is it?

That is a continuing point of discussion around here. Some say it is fusion (adding of smaller units to make a large unit) but that would make n+235U=236U fusion, and I dont think anyone calls it that.

Try "transmutation".

The question in my mind is whether n+Ni and p+Ni should be considered different types of reactions. Is the first transmutation while the second is fusion? Have fun figuring this out!

[CKay]

Dishonest Practices:

1. Tax evasion
2. False Degree
3. Lied about shipping 1MW plant to customer (repeatedly)
4. Clearly lied in Krivit video about Output (although possibly on purpose, regardless it's a lie)

5. Dyes his hair.

[Kahuna]

So the once hoped for UoB test of the eCat seems dead:

http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2012/01/ ... ith-rossi/

I must say that Rossi seems to be a serial name-dropper. He likes to mention association with some credible organization (e.g. UL, UoB, UoUppsala, Home Depot, NASA, NI, etc.) which never amount to anything.

The jury is still out on whether there is anything real going on with NI or UL but the track record is not great. The NI press release was encouraging but I would like to see more convincing evidence. Maybe someone has sources at NI or UL that can shed light one way or another.

At this point, I would say the nearest term potnetial to demonstrate anything is the Defkalion "test program." Jed Rothwell at Vortex says he has talked to one of those who visited Defkalion to help develop the test guidelines posted here earlier and that the he did find a real lab with professional personnel and equipment there.

Although they have not given specific dates for the tests, their posts lead you to believe a first quarter timeframe. With a promised COP of >= 20 and 650 degrees C for 96 hours, I would think there would be a lot of room for error and still have these tests be convincing if they ever really allow independent third parties to conduct them with their own setups and equipment.

The saga continues...

[Kahuna]

Here is some more information from Defkalion on their test program:

1. Our availability for such testing is from today, any day, within the next two months.

2. This series of tests will be performed in one of our labs in Athens, Greece.

3. Independent testing means, by definition, third party calibrated instruments. That is what we expect do be defined in the mutually agreed test protocols with the testers/evaluators.

4. Testing will be on "bare" Hyperion reactors without it's coolant interface. Please note Hyperion specs on our definition on "reactor" and "kernel". The last includes the coolant interface requiring the rest of the Hyperion subsystems to operate/perform. Such kernel and the rest of Hyperion subsystems testing as a total system, including flow calorimetry, will follow Hyperion's certification.

Both test Reactors will be measured (weight and all their dimensions) before and after their testing. Testers/evaluators may inspect the inner of the reactors during their "role switch".

5. We announced expected reactor's COP far more than 20, not 20. The reactors to be tested will be of the same version as the ones referred in our spec sheet. We will leave their exact COP to be calculated by the independent testers.

Any other detailed technical or procedural question on our press release will be answered only through direct mails to named representatives of organizations inquiring tests.

Thank you

If this plays out, these guys will smoke Rossi as they appear ready for electricity generation with 600C temps.

Fun to watch...

[parallel]

GIThruster,

The fact he bought his degree from Kensington rather than earning one is pretty solid evidence he's a con artist.

(ScottL repeats the same misinformation but then he never comes up with anything original or worth reading.)

Are you stupid or is it you just can’t read?

Carl White posted this on page 208

"In 1973, Rossi graduated in Philosophy of Science and Engineering at the University of Milan with a dissertation on Albert Einstein’s Theory of Relativity and its interrelationship with Husserl’s Phenomenology (Honors Degree: 110/110)."

The University of Milan is legitimate.

"In 1979, Rossi was awarded a degree in Chemical Engineering from Kensington University, California (USA), thanks to the numerous professional credits earned there for the many registered patents he acquired since the first years of his professional career."

Kensington was a diploma mill and was shut down. But it isn't clear how Rossi came to obtain this degree, and in any case, the patents are real enough.

I also note jratcliff63367 never answered the question why he called Rossi extremely dishonest.

[Torulf2]

There seems to be a lot of experiments supporting the existents of cold fusion but I'm still sceptic. For example there are high temperature reactions between metals and water how is strongly exothermic. Most known is this for zirconium but it can take place with other transition metals.
Zr + 2 H2O → ZrO2 + 2 H2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zirconium
If this happens to Ni we have energy production start over an critical temperature. The cooling water is one of the reactants and there are lots of Ni.
What do you say about this?

[ladajo]

jratcliff63367

but he does come off as extremely dishonest

.
He has never been convicted of anything except possibly tax evasion (the national sport of Italy) and has not taken investors money for the E-Cat.

Yet you write Rossi is extremely dishonest. Really? Why do you make that statement? Some references would be good.

Do you run out of words to describe politicians?

After having lived for a couple of years Italy, I came to the conclusion that the "National Sport" of Italy is "taking each others' money".
Rossi seems to fall neatly into this sport as a hopeful champion.

[KitemanSA]

My recollection is (though there has been so much dross that my recollections are fairly hazy) that a respectable technical person made calculations of all p[ossible chemical reactions and IF the reported excess heat is accurate, NO possible chemical reaction could explain it.

Lots of IFS, no validated scientific data.

Upshot, may still be plausible, certainly not proven.

[Joseph Chikva]

My recollection is (though there has been so much dross that my recollections are fairly hazy)

I see only dross when asking very simple things: how much heat and how that it has been measured?
And I am always receiving four kinds of answers:
1. Those all were demo and not experiments and there is not any necessity to measure heat correctly.
2. Vast reasonings on various theories e.g. Widom-Larsen, etc. For me those reasonings would be interesting for reading and not for taking a participation only in case if thay are conducted by e.g. Landau and Feynman. Then many complaints addressing to "mainstream scientists" lobbying "hot fusion" and braking cold.
3. Mentions of: mythical sale of 1 MW plant by "secret customer", mythical collaboration with universities and mythical collaboration with NASA. All these also do not correspond to true.
4. personal attacks. Such as: trivial thinking, stupid, etc. Attack by people whose main source of information is NextBigFuture site or/and Wikipedia.

that a respectable technical person made calculations of all p[ossible chemical reactions and IF the reported excess heat is accurate, NO possible chemical reaction could explain it.

Lots of IFS, no validated scientific data.

What do you think why? No validated scientific data. I think` (by my trivial and primitive brain) that effect is not in existence. And you?

[jratcliff63367]

I also note jratcliff63367 never answered the question why he called Rossi extremely dishonest.

I called him extremely dishonest because of all of the claims he made regarding his one mw reactor primarily. His imaginary invisible 'customer' who 'took delivery' of it; even though he never actually delivered it to anyone.

And, I think Steven Krivit and others have done a pretty good job of exposing his deceptive statements and behavior; including demonstrating a device to Krivit which could barely warm a cup of tea.

John

[parallel]

I also note jratcliff63367 never answered the question why he called Rossi extremely dishonest.

I called him extremely dishonest because of all of the claims he made regarding his one mw reactor primarily. His imaginary invisible 'customer' who 'took delivery' of it; even though he never actually delivered it to anyone.

And, I think Steven Krivit and others have done a pretty good job of exposing his deceptive statements and behavior; including demonstrating a device to Krivit which could barely warm a cup of tea.

John

As has been reported here on Vortex, Rossi made the original statement that the 1 MW plant was "gone" (? from memory) This could have been a language problem when he should have said "sold." He has made no secret that it remained in place to Lewan at Ny Teknik for example. Everyone knows the gaskets had to be replaced as they leaked and it seems reasonable to upgrade the controllers in view of what he learned later with NI.

I don't find Krivit's comments acceptable proof. He had an early falling out with Rossi and apparently tried to steal some of the nickel powder. He was rude to the various professors helping out at the time, calling them incompetent.

You will have to do better than that to defend your comment that Rossi was extremely dishonest.

[ladajo]

Ok,
How about the part where after Rossi (more than once) said it was "gone", he also said he was on a trip to help install and set it up in the US?

This was all part of the Vortex onion peeling.

Rossi speak with forked tongue.

[ScottL]

GIThruster,

The fact he bought his degree from Kensington rather than earning one is pretty solid evidence he's a con artist.

(ScottL repeats the same misinformation but then he never comes up with anything original or worth reading.)

Are you stupid or is it you just can’t read?

Carl White posted this on page 208

"In 1973, Rossi graduated in Philosophy of Science and Engineering at the University of Milan with a dissertation on Albert Einstein’s Theory of Relativity and its interrelationship with Husserl’s Phenomenology (Honors Degree: 110/110)."

The University of Milan is legitimate.

"In 1979, Rossi was awarded a degree in Chemical Engineering from Kensington University, California (USA), thanks to the numerous professional credits earned there for the many registered patents he acquired since the first years of his professional career."

Kensington was a diploma mill and was shut down. But it isn't clear how Rossi came to obtain this degree, and in any case, the patents are real enough.

I also note jratcliff63367 never answered the question why he called Rossi extremely dishonest.

Please do correct me with facts. As far as I understand he was jailed for tax evasion. He was brought in on several charges, acquittal or not, you know major mobsters from the 20s-50s were charged and acquitted, guess they didn't do their crimes either right? In all likelihood based on some of the charges, he probably had ties into politcal positions at the time or even the court system itself. Further, let's face you, you can't honestly tell me in the Krivit video that the e-cat is producing Rossi's claimed energy output. So, with facts, please do set me straight.

[Giorgio]

So, UoB finally got bored of him.
I guess you just can't pull the rope forever like he does.