10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

[Axil]

I'm more than a little confused over this Rossi thing.


Rossi has said that he no longer needs his magic catalyst....?

Do you have a reference for this statement?

Yeah his patent.

Much Thanks Scott.

I saw this in the US 2011/0005506 Al Jan. 13, 2011

In applicant exothermal reaction the hydrogen
nuclei, due to a high absorbing capability of nickel therefor,
are compressed about the metal atom nuclei, while said high
temperature generates internuclear percussions which are
made stronger by the catalytic action of optional elements,
thereby triggering a capture of a proton by the nickel powder,
with a consequent transformation of nickel to copper and a
beta+ decay of the latter to a nickel nucleus having a mass
which is by an unit larger than that of the starting nickel.


Did Rossi change this is some latter version?

[ScottL]

Much Thanks Scott.

I saw this in the US 2011/0005506 Al Jan. 13, 2011

In applicant exothermal reaction the hydrogen
nuclei, due to a high absorbing capability of nickel therefor,
are compressed about the metal atom nuclei, while said high
temperature generates internuclear percussions which are
made stronger by the catalytic action of optional elements,
thereby triggering a capture of a proton by the nickel powder,
with a consequent transformation of nickel to copper and a
beta+ decay of the latter to a nickel nucleus having a mass
which is by an unit larger than that of the starting nickel.


Did Rossi change this is some latter version?

Yes, there is a thread dedicated with necessary links to the topic here on TP.

[stefanbanev]

I'm more than a little confused over this Rossi thing.


Rossi has said that he no longer needs his magic catalyst....?

Do you have a reference for this statement?

Yeah his patent.

The original assertion was:

>Rossi has said that he no longer needs his magic catalyst....?

So, does the new patent explicitly states that catalyst is no longer needed OR it just does not mention it?

Apparently it is quite different:
1) do not mention in the patent about catalyst avoiding apparent objections from the patent office
2) to state explicitly that catalyst is no longer needed

[ScottL]

The original assertion was:

>Rossi has said that he no longer needs his magic catalyst....?

So, does the new patent explicitly states that catalyst is no longer needed OR it just does not mention it?

Apparently it is quite different:
1) do not mention in the patent about catalyst avoiding apparent objections from the patent office
2) to state explicitly that catalyst is no longer needed

1. Doing so would instantly invalidate any pending or requested patents. This is part of the patent process, sorry.
2. I do believe he's stated previously that the catalyst was not required, however; he gets a better reaction with it. TP is struggling right now so I'll try to post later about it.

Either way he is either purposefully invalidating his patent by not mentioning the catalyst or he no longer requires it. Assuming he's not a complete moron, it's safe to presume that it is no longer needed.

[seedload]

Either way he is either purposefully invalidating his patent by not mentioning the catalyst or he no longer requires it. Assuming he's not a complete moron, it's safe to presume that it is no longer needed.

Yep, catalyst is not needed. After all, how do you catalyze a reaction that doesn't exist?

[ScottL]

Are we on year 3 or 4, I've lost track already. Every time I think we're bored with beating a dead horse, that horse shows a cadaveric spasm and we're back at it. If anything Rossi is the catalyst in our un-ending reactions.

[JoeP]

Are we on year 3 or 4, I've lost track already. Every time I think we're bored with beating a dead horse, that horse shows a cadaveric spasm and we're back at it. If anything Rossi is the catalyst in our un-ending reactions.

Right - lol. I'm sure the upcoming 6 month test will also revive this thread at the end of 2013 or whenever it is scheduled to conclude.

[Betruger]

SNAKES!!

[seedload]

I for one am pretty excited about what Rossi is doing lately. He is studying positron emissions from lightning storms and how it relates to LENR. Additionally, he is exploring nanotechnology for putting tiny ECATs into home appliances. Finally, he has assigned members of his US team of scientists to replicate all existing LENR claims for the purpose of figuring out which one's work and to understand the underlying theory behind all LENR reactions.

Cheap isotopic separation, nanotechnology, meteorology/cosmology, replication of an entire field of experimentation - all while saving the world with nearly free energy - is there any limit to what this man can do?

Bravo, Mr. Rossi, sir.

[JoeP]

I for one am pretty excited about what Rossi is doing lately. He is studying positron emissions from lightning storms and how it relates to LENR. Additionally, he is exploring nanotechnology for putting tiny ECATs into home appliances. Finally, he has assigned members of his US team of scientists to replicate all existing LENR claims for the purpose of figuring out which one's work and to understand the underlying theory behind all LENR reactions.

Cheap isotopic separation, nanotechnology, meteorology/cosmology, replication of an entire field of experimentation - all while saving the world with nearly free energy - is there any limit to what this man can do?

Bravo, Mr. Rossi, sir.

Yeah, but on the tiny chance Rossi is right then this silliness you write above may come to pass! Just like Frederick Hallam in The Gods Themselves by Asimov. A pretty good book -- I recommend it if you haven't read it -- and not just for the story parallels.

[TallDave]

I for one am pretty excited about what Rossi is doing lately. He is studying positron emissions from lightning storms and how it relates to LENR. Additionally, he is exploring nanotechnology for putting tiny ECATs into home appliances. Finally, he has assigned members of his US team of scientists to replicate all existing LENR claims for the purpose of figuring out which one's work and to understand the underlying theory behind all LENR reactions.

Cheap isotopic separation, nanotechnology, meteorology/cosmology, replication of an entire field of experimentation - all while saving the world with nearly free energy - is there any limit to what this man can do?

Bravo, Mr. Rossi, sir.

Yeah, but on the tiny chance Rossi is right then this silliness you write above may come to pass! Just like Frederick Hallam in The Gods Themselves by Asimov. A pretty good book -- I recommend it if you haven't read it -- and not just for the story parallels.

That's funny, I was just thinking that same thought the other day.
[hide]
Hopefully Rossi isn't going to make the Sun explode.

[paperburn1]

Submitted without comment
http://news.discovery.com/tech/alternat ... 130528.htm
http://news.discovery.com/tech/alternat ... 130528.htm

[KitemanSA]

Submitted without comment
http://news.discovery.com/tech/alternat ... 130528.htm
http://news.discovery.com/tech/alternat ... 130528.htm

Wow, this guy MAY be some sort of high energy/plasma physicist but his knowledge of condensed matter physics seems lacking.

The Coulomb barrier wouldn't be an issue to either a neutron (Widom-Larsen) or electron escorted proton (several others). In a plasma, a sea of free floating charges, his statement is probably true. In an engineered lattice eith potential quasi-particle behavior, not so much.

Gamma rays are a tough one unless one postulates that an escort electron is part of a large scale quasi-particle that absorbs the excitation energy across the entire particle. At that point, the emitted EM would be down in the xray or even UV frequencies. Again, a plasma physics onjection to a condensed matter situation.

Regarding the "Element" statement, again it reflects a sadly plasma-centric viewpoint. It is not fundamentally true that it is especially hard to combine a proton with another large nucleus. What IS quite difficult is in the absence of intervening particles to make the proton STICK. Adding a proton to a large nucleus releases a LOT of bonding energy. The easiest way to shed that energy is to reject a proton immediately. But if that proton is escorted by an electron, the electron can carry the energy away instead.

The author then devolves into condemning a subject because he doesn't like the way a demo is set up. That is akin to saying that paleontology is bunk because Dawson was a fraud. Silly argument.

The fifth point is where the author shows his true ignorance. Saying that you can patent something without revealing how it works is absurd. And if apple patented things with essential info missing, all he has evidence for is a lousy examiner of maybe patent fraud.

This article is a bigger load of bunk than the LENR it attacks, even Rossi's LENR.

[parallel]

Mark Gibbs of Forbes writes this:

My admittedly unscientific evaluation of all of this discussion is that it seems public opinion is very much in favor of the E-Cat being real while belief in the reality of the tests is considerably less so. I suspect that this disparity is because the tests can be evaluated in far greater detail than the E-Cat and have attracted the attention of the disbelievers while those who believe the E-Cat is real have considerably less to say about the tests because the tests confirmed their beliefs.

Be that as it may, a company based in Sweden, Hydro Fusion, a licensee of Rossi’s Leonardo Corporation, issued a press release on June 10 that makes the E-Cat look just a little bit more like a real product:

Wanted: Pilot Customer for ECAT 1 MW plant

Hydro Fusion is looking for a Pilot Customer for the first ECAT 1 MW Plant to operate in Sweden. The customer will only pay for the energy produced by the ECAT, i.e. Hydro Fusion will take responsibility for all associated costs including: the plant itself, installation and any transportation costs. In return the Pilot Customer agrees upon

Scheduled Installation time by late fall 2013.
Hydro Fusion to use the Pilot Plant as a Showcase where external customers can be introduced to an ECAT 1 MW in operation.

Hydro Fusion is open to any type of heat application given the restriction of a maximum 120 C temperature.

In other words, Hydro Fusion is offering an E-Cat for no cost … the lucky winner will pay only for the energy produced at, presumably, parity with the cost of traditional energy sources.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2 ... -for-free/

My reading of the proposal is that the customer will only pay for the power used to run the E-Cat so should see the benefit of the COP = 6

[303]

http://hydrofusion.com/news

http://hydrofusion.com/news/ecat-valida ... scientists

A device so revolutionary it has to be given away, and only if youre swedish?