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Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:43 pm
by ladajo
shutdownrossi.com
The posted email exchange between Roger Green, Rossi(eventually) and "Robert K." is illuminating.
You can skip most of the analysis commentary.
Another interesting trail posted is the document trail regarding the patents and rights, which is then tied to Rossi's "Companies" and his wife.
And as always, placing everything Rossi does or says on a real timeline gives more clarity to his full-of-shyteness.
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:19 pm
by Kahuna
Interesting...
Press Release: E-Cat Technology Certified by European Agency SGS
http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/09/press ... gency-sgs/
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:14 pm
by ladajo
Adolf Schneider, a really trusty worthy guy. Not.
It does not surprise me to see him associated with Rossi.
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:56 pm
by Kahuna
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:55 pm
by Rick Meisinger
Kahuna wrote:I guess the SGS thing was BS
Not sure this clarifies much, but here is a post from Gerd Neumann a partner of E-Cat Vertrieb in Germany. His english is really difficult to understand, but what I get out of it is that they have heard that the certification is complete but have not seen the actual certification. So the announcement seems like a premature leak.
Gerd Neumann wrote: Good friends, I could read the words in e-catworld, I think Mrs Stechl is not informed about this, what she write! Yes, she is my parnter into the german sales-group. But the differenz betwenn she and me is: I never write on my website, that the certification is real! Only A. Rossi can write this, each other! Than, when I have the certification in my eyes, I can write this! I hope, you can understand, what I mean! We are here not in kindergarten! We have a job, this is: bring the e-cat to the people! I want to make my job perfect! Other people think so, too, may be. But they go another way! I say to you what I can say to you, nothing else! Mrs. Stechl only want, the people must think, the e-cat is no problem. She had heard, the sgs had given the certification. I heard it, too. But I couldn`t see it. So let us make our job, it is not so important, if the certification is here or there! Important is, the certification is in this moment, the e-cat goes to the people! Thats our job, too. Please read, what I mean about our together: I must read words here in our community, I don`t want to read this! Sometimes here is no friendship! But, if we want the victory, we need the friendship and the akzeptanz (correct this word?). We have no chance in the pool with the sharks, when we have no love between us! If I must read in next time so bad words, I must leave this group! Good night! God bless you!
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:57 pm
by Joseph Chikva
Gerd Neumann wrote:Yes, she is my parnter into the german sales-group.
So, good English or bad English but they have sales-groups.
What are they selling? Non-certificted products?
With not proved and unknown consumer properties?
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:55 pm
by Rick Meisinger
Joseph Chikva wrote:Gerd Neumann wrote:Yes, she is my parnter into the german sales-group.
So, good English or bad English but they have sales-groups.
What are they selling? Non-certificted products?
With not proved and unknown consumer properties?
Andrea Rossi has stated on his blog that they have received certification for their 1MW plant with the low temperature eCats and that the 1MW plant with the high temperature eCats is still being certified. He did not state that the certification that they obtained was in Europe but it is possible that this group is currently selling the low temp. plants until they receive the certification for the new plant that most people are excited about. Especially if it turns out to be the size of a small barrel.
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:37 pm
by Axil
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:53 pm
by paperburn1
Rick Meisinger wrote:Kahuna wrote:I guess the SGS thing was BS
Not sure this clarifies much, but here is a post from Gerd Neumann a partner of E-Cat Vertrieb in Germany. His english is really difficult to understand, but what I get out of it is that they have heard that the certification is complete but have not seen the actual certification. So the announcement seems like a premature leak.
Gerd Neumann wrote: Good friends, I could read the words in e-catworld, I think Mrs Stechl is not informed about this, what she write! Yes, she is my parnter into the german sales-group. But the differenz betwenn she and me is: I never write on my website, that the certification is real! Only A. Rossi can write this, each other! Than, when I have the certification in my eyes, I can write this! I hope, you can understand, what I mean! We are here not in kindergarten! We have a job, this is: bring the e-cat to the people! I want to make my job perfect! Other people think so, too, may be. But they go another way! I say to you what I can say to you, nothing else! Mrs. Stechl only want, the people must think, the e-cat is no problem. She had heard, the sgs had given the certification. I heard it, too. But I couldn`t see it. So let us make our job, it is not so important, if the certification is here or there! Important is, the certification is in this moment, the e-cat goes to the people! Thats our job, too. Please read, what I mean about our together: I must read words here in our community, I don`t want to read this! Sometimes here is no friendship! But, if we want the victory, we need the friendship and the akzeptanz (correct this word?). We have no chance in the pool with the sharks, when we have no love between us! If I must read in next time so bad words, I must leave this group! Good night! God bless you!
Do you have this in the original german?
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:15 pm
by Rick Meisinger
paperburn1 wrote:Do you have this in the original german?
Most of his posts were in German but this one he posted in English; so no German version.
Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:46 am
by Joseph Chikva
Rick Meisinger wrote:He did not state that the certification that they obtained was in Europe but it is possible that this group is currently selling the low temp. plants until they receive the certification for the new plant that most people are excited about. Especially if it turns out to be the size of a small barrel.
I see a lot of excited people. And it is very nice if you have 1 MW power plant with barrel size.
But let's say that I want to buy.
Can any body say consumption of utilities, relibility (in average how many hours plant runs without failure), operational cost and followed from this production cost of 1 kW*h, etc?
Spare parts, after sale service?
Your assumptions "that this group is currently selling" is laughable as till now we know even does ecat produce any type of radiation or not.
If yes buyer should obtain license for buying as well. Especially if radiation source is portable - you said " barrel size".
Imagine that you are terrorist and bought ecat. You placed that in minivan without shielding and left the car in a populous place.
Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:33 am
by tomclarke
Joseph Chikva wrote:Rick Meisinger wrote:He did not state that the certification that they obtained was in Europe but it is possible that this group is currently selling the low temp. plants until they receive the certification for the new plant that most people are excited about. Especially if it turns out to be the size of a small barrel.
I see a lot of excited people. And it is very nice if you have 1 MW power plant with barrel size.
But let's say that I want to buy.
Can any body say consumption of utilities, relibility (in average how many hours plant runs without failure), operational cost and followed from this production cost of 1 kW*h, etc?
Spare parts, after sale service?
Your assumptions "that this group is currently selling" is laughable as till now we know even does ecat produce any type of radiation or not.
If yes buyer should obtain license for buying as well. Especially if radiation source is portable - you said " barrel size".
Imagine that you are terrorist and bought ecat. You placed that in minivan without shielding and left the car in a populous place.
It is a hell of a lot easier for Rossi to get his device "certified" than to make it work. All he needs to demonstarte it working is give it to reputable external lab for tests. He has had to chances to do this from sympathetic labs: NASA and UoB. He has turned both down.
Moving from lack of scientific PoC to selling and "certification" is the province of scammers and idiots. Rossi has plenty of prior either way.
Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:34 am
by Joseph Chikva
tomclarke wrote:It is a hell of a lot easier for Rossi to get his device "certified" than to make it work.
Absolutely correct.
But I only tried to explain that between even working prototype and real sales is a gap or commercialization which comprises many very very boring things.
And yes, first of all prototype should work. And Rossi could not show such ability. And though Mr. Messinger as well as other Rossi's funs say "Rossi states that", all Rossi's claims are less credible. If not to say that are not credible at all.
Mythical customer, mythical certification, etc.
Certification of what? That device does not produce radiation. I would grant Rossi one more certificate - that his device does not runs as claimed.
My pillow doesn't make radiation too.
And electric water heater also produces the heat. But a little less than spent electric energy. And also I can get certification for heater that it is non-radioactive heat source.
Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:35 pm
by parallel
Without a patent (no US patents allowed for cold fusion) who would you trust to verify the device and not reverse engineer it and steal it?
Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:57 pm
by Joseph Chikva
parallel wrote:Without a patent (no US patents allowed for cold fusion) who would you trust to verify the device and not reverse engineer it and steal it?
Patent is issued on
useful device or method. And where is usefulness?
If I am wrong and device is marketable right now, please inform me and others its consumer properties: such as how many Ni should be spent for producing of 1 kW*h. Again reliability of device, again operational cost.
And Chinese would find way of back engineering even in patent's case. But there is not issue of back engineering. And that is Rossi's and I see yours too problem.