SpaceX News

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

Moderators: tonybarry, MSimon

paperburn1
Posts: 2484
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:53 am
Location: Third rock from the sun.

Re: SpaceX News

Post by paperburn1 »

Drones around the launch pad are not a conspiracy idea.
Florida Institute of Technology (FIT) in Melbourne, Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Daytona Beach, Bristow Academy in Titusville, the 45th Space Wing and 920th Rescue wing at Patrick Air Force Base, the FAA’s Orlando regional office, Flight Safety International organizations, the Department of State, DynCorp, Brevard and Seminole County sheriff’s departments, all have permits to fly drones in nasa air space. and some are authorised to fly for security purposes during launch activities.
This does not include the NASA inspection drones operated by NASA and Jacobs Space Operations engineers on the Test and Operations Support used during launch and site inspections. So delta-V sighting a drone should be taken as a highly probable event.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

Giorgio
Posts: 3061
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: China, Italy

Re: SpaceX News

Post by Giorgio »

The conspiracy part is not "the presence" of drones.
The conspiracy nonsense start when you invoke that someone equipped the drones with all kind of weird equipment to create an explosion, while the same result could have been obtained with a much easier equipment and procedure.

Let's wait SpaceX engineers report and than we will have something worth to read and comment about.
A society of dogmas is a dead society.

paperburn1
Posts: 2484
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:53 am
Location: Third rock from the sun.

Re: SpaceX News

Post by paperburn1 »

This don't sound good
If you have audio, photos or videos of our anomaly last week, please send to report@spacex.com. Material may be useful for investigation
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

DeltaV
Posts: 2245
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:05 am

Re: SpaceX News

Post by DeltaV »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCB2jYFmgR0
It's just one of those supersonic, tungsten dart-tossing or electrolaser-firing bugs. Chooooooom.

hanelyp
Posts: 2261
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:50 pm

Re: SpaceX News

Post by hanelyp »

Conspiracy theorists have a way of generating overly complex scenarios and methods, when simple accounts can explain the known facts.
The daylight is uncomfortably bright for eyes so long in the dark.

paperburn1
Posts: 2484
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:53 am
Location: Third rock from the sun.

Re: SpaceX News

Post by paperburn1 »

“If you have audio, photos or videos of our anomaly last week, please send to report@spacex.com. Material may be useful for investigation,” Musk requested by twitter.

Indications of an initial “bang” moments before the calamity are also bewildering investigators.

“Particularly trying to understand the quieter bang sound a few seconds before the fireball goes off. May come from rocket or something else.”

The explosion is also being jointly investigated by multiple US Federal agency’s.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

DeltaV
Posts: 2245
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:05 am

Re: SpaceX News

Post by DeltaV »

hanelyp wrote:Conspiracy theorists have a way of generating overly complex scenarios and methods, when simple accounts can explain the known facts.
What could be simpler than a tungsten dart dropped out of a drone?

http://www.horizonhobby.com/category/mu ... view-(fpv)

http://www.tecplot.com/blog/2013/01/30/ ... g-reality/

Image

kunkmiester
Posts: 892
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:51 pm
Contact:

Re: SpaceX News

Post by kunkmiester »

How far is the security perimeter? With a target that large, a .50bmg rifle sighted in well could hit the broad side of a barn well over a mile out. Explosive round would have fun if it hit where there was lots of oxygen being vented, even just a plain ball round would give you trouble regardless of where it hit.

Much easier than a drone, the only reason for a drone is not being able to get a sniper close enough.
Evil is evil, no matter how small

paperburn1
Posts: 2484
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:53 am
Location: Third rock from the sun.

Re: SpaceX News

Post by paperburn1 »

kunkmiester wrote:How far is the security perimeter? With a target that large, a .50bmg rifle sighted in well could hit the broad side of a barn well over a mile out. Explosive round would have fun if it hit where there was lots of oxygen being vented, even just a plain ball round would give you trouble regardless of where it hit.

Much easier than a drone, the only reason for a drone is not being able to get a sniper close enough.
Miles but your right with a BMG that's very doable. For Apollo the diameter of the circular exclusion zone around the launch being 7 miles.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

DeltaV
Posts: 2245
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:05 am

Re: SpaceX News

Post by DeltaV »


Tom Ligon
Posts: 1871
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:23 am
Location: Northern Virginia
Contact:

Re: SpaceX News

Post by Tom Ligon »

Deja vu all over again ... my old buddy the Organic Air Vehicle! Worked pretty well until a piece of junk broke off from the inside of the fuel tank, blocked the fuel line, and the engine stopped cold. To the credit of our control system, it stayed upright in the fall. The damage was repairable and we flew it again. FYI, the "leading edge" of the fan shroud is the fuel tank.

Aurora worked on a series of these, with Athena providing the controls, including a couple of sizes of Golden-Eye, and the multi-fan, jet-powered Excalibur.

We never equipped one to shoot. My assessment was the things were so noisy, the best application was to have one rise up above a hill to spy on the enemy. While the enemy was wondering what that cockeyed thing was hovering over the hill, the special forces would attack from the other direction. As stated above, launching a dart from one of these, particularly an oblique shot on a high-speed pass, is the hard way to do something best done by a $10 Browning-50 round from a Barrett. Or else a loose fitting in the LOX lines.

paperburn1
Posts: 2484
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:53 am
Location: Third rock from the sun.

Re: SpaceX News

Post by paperburn1 »

People seem to be forgetting the video and musk are looking for the Boing noise that was clearly heard less than 2 seconds before the big bang.
loud enough to be heard miles away.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

Tom Ligon
Posts: 1871
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:23 am
Location: Northern Virginia
Contact:

Re: SpaceX News

Post by Tom Ligon »

Looking at Google Earth, Cape Canaveral, Launch Complex 40, I make the four towers (I believe their main function is as lightning rods) as a rectangle of about 268 ft x 426 ft. We still don't know the distances to the UFO.

Regarding the various "flying trashcans" (the pet name for these things at Aurora), the ducted fan UAV designs can translate but they're usually not fast or efficient at it. That original Organic Air Vehicle I shown in the pic above did a few translation flights at about a walking speed. OAV II may have done more. The Golden Eye models had wings and were designed to translate to horizontal flight.

None of the wingless flying trashcans I've been involved with were built for horizontal speed. If we can get some ballpark idea of where the flight path of the UFO was, maybe we can get some idea of its speed, but if at about the range of the towers, it would have been traversing a significant fraction of the distance between towers in one frame. Supposedly the camera was recording at 60 frames per second. Say 100 ft per frame, that would be 6000 fps. Off the top of my head, none of the flying trashcans could hit anywhere near that. Goldeneye 100 is probably the fastest or close to it, and is listed as having a top speed of 185 mph, which would be 271 fps. GoldenEye at full speed would have the fan cocked over closer to horizontal and would be flying with the aid of its swiveling wings.

(Article including a pic of a winged GoldenEye 100: http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=m ... 647aeaf55c)
It is hard for me to believe that anything the shape and attitude shown in the photos could move thousands of feet per second.

A much smaller "flying solo cup" in the foreground might appear to be moving that fast, but would be more of a threat to the camera than the rocket. I suppose someone could be flying one, but I can't imagine why, as a DJI Phantom would be SOOOOO much simpler and cheaper to procure.

ladajo
Posts: 6258
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Re: SpaceX News

Post by ladajo »

paperburn1 wrote:
kunkmiester wrote:How far is the security perimeter? With a target that large, a .50bmg rifle sighted in well could hit the broad side of a barn well over a mile out. Explosive round would have fun if it hit where there was lots of oxygen being vented, even just a plain ball round would give you trouble regardless of where it hit.

Much easier than a drone, the only reason for a drone is not being able to get a sniper close enough.
Miles but your right with a BMG that's very doable. For Apollo the diameter of the circular exclusion zone around the launch being 7 miles.
I am unaware of any .50 cal capability that could make a greater than 7 mile intentional hit. From an unstabilized mount, you are talking a mile with any measure of precision. The rare high end shooters/kit could push that to about 1.5miles. Typical maximum fall of shot would be about 8000 yards, or roughly 4 miles. It would more than likely take a number of rounds at 4 miles to hit a booster sized target, and would be a lottery shoot. At 4000 yards you are talking probable groups from a high end weapon (TAC-50, or a stabilized mount) measured in single digit feet. Five feet is probably a good number. Extreme range windage is a bitch, and turns those shoots into lotteries. Unless it is a custom load round even making 8000 yards fall of shot is going to be hard.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

Tom Ligon
Posts: 1871
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:23 am
Location: Northern Virginia
Contact:

Re: SpaceX News

Post by Tom Ligon »

If this were a rifle shot, I'd agree 1 to 1.5 miles is about the practical limit. But if you've ever been to the Cape, it would be a wonderful place to creep into in a gillie suit. There's a lot of flat brushy and grassy area, full of marshy channels. You would have to not mind swimming with gators, but there are people who make a living infiltrating places like this. Look at all the coastline.

They have security, but visitors can drive in to the Visitor's Center a few miles away, and they give tours of some of the launch sites. Contractors are in and out all the time. Security for a fueling test of an unmanned commercial flight would not be especially high. I think Seals could beat it easily, or former Seals.

I'm not sure where the cameras were, but my main bets are either Harrison Island or the general vicinity of the Visitor's Center. These are southwest of Launch Complex 40. Google Maps Earth view shows the pad layout, with salient points being the four perimeter towers and the spherical tank that appears on the right side of the videos. I measure 12.2 sec between the fireball and the first big boom, about 13700 ft. There's a soft pop 6.9 seconds after the fireball that may be a precursor event. The 12-second delay suggests to me the camera was probably near the KSC HQ, a little east of the Visitor Complex, near the large building at the NE corner of the complex.

Post Reply