General Fusion in the news

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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crowberry
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Re: General Fusion in the news

Postby crowberry » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:07 am

This is quite a big announcement. There are also interesting things going on elsewhere. Tokamak Energy will soon get their ST40 device ready. LPP Fusion will switch to their beryllium electrodes in a few months time and the results with that will be interesting to see. TAE is working with their latest device. What Helion Energy is doing remains to be seen, but they also have funding for what they are doing. EMC2 is working on simulations. And one should not forget that LM is also working on their concept. So the dark horse race is as interesting as ever.

The General Fusion prototype will be quite expensive to build, so they will need to start also a serious fund raising campaign now.

ladajo
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Re: General Fusion in the news

Postby ladajo » Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:13 pm

LPP Fusion will switch to their beryllium electrodes in a few months time and the results with that will be interesting to see.


Yes, and they may well be reaching the materials plateau regarding cost/effect for the testing cycle. A big part of that is going to be the resiliency of the Be parts.
I did enjoy reading the latest updates, and while the Be parts, and chamber coating may help significantly, it may not be enough. Absolutely interesting to see.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

Skipjack
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Re: General Fusion in the news

Postby Skipjack » Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:37 pm

crowberry wrote:This is quite a big announcement. There are also interesting things going on elsewhere. Tokamak Energy will soon get their ST40 device ready. LPP Fusion will switch to their beryllium electrodes in a few months time and the results with that will be interesting to see. TAE is working with their latest device. What Helion Energy is doing remains to be seen, but they also have funding for what they are doing. EMC2 is working on simulations. And one should not forget that LM is also working on their concept. So the dark horse race is as interesting as ever.

The General Fusion prototype will be quite expensive to build, so they will need to start also a serious fund raising campaign now.

Tokamak Energy recently published a roadmap that aims for break even tests by 2020.
Helion is very busy with ongoing tests and new builds. That is all I can say at this point.

mvanwink5
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Re: General Fusion in the news

Postby mvanwink5 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:13 pm

Large prototypes are only funded when every possible risk is minimized.

GF has their forged metal 3 meter sphere to order, which must have a serious long lead time. The placement of the holes, milling accuracy of the sphere's inside surface must be awesome considering the timing coordination needed and near perfect compression wave front needed. I suppose they can adjust the piston timing for radial deviance, but spherical aberrations is another matter. I wonder who will bid on it? And one mistake... the delay. Better be a reputable supplier.

The 200 pistons will likely have a stretched out delivery. Easy to control quality and they already are making them.

GF's plasma tests now seem to be a matter of when, not if.

Tri Alpha Energy should know enough to go after a big (big enough) machine this year.

Sounds like Polywell has had good simulation results based on Larry's 'tone', truly reading the tea leaves for that.

LPP for me is just a curiosity. Contamination, electrodes, chance of a whoops (so many so far)...

Since LM has not died, there must be progress. I take that as good news, which is the most I can say about that. More soggy tea leaves.

SK is ever the optimist. Nothing new there.
Near term, cheap, dark horse fusion hits the air waves, GF - TED, LM - Announcement. The race is on.

mvanwink5
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Re: General Fusion in the news

Postby mvanwink5 » Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:35 pm

A key insight into why and when the change to the integrated prototype happened. Also, the suggestion is prototype in 5 years. A bit slow for my impatient view. It may be related to partner cashflow restrictions and desire not to go outside for financing.

http://www.canadiansailings.ca/b-cs-gen ... wer-plant/
Major advances in the company’s plasma fuel technology in March 2017 overcame key technical challenges, opening the way for development of an integrated prototype machine combining all aspects of the company’s fusion technology.
Near term, cheap, dark horse fusion hits the air waves, GF - TED, LM - Announcement. The race is on.

ladajo
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Re: General Fusion in the news

Postby ladajo » Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:54 pm

I still think they have too many moving parts and unknowns to be making the 'proclamations' they have too date. Smells more like marketing than science, and this makes me feel suspect.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

mvanwink5
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Location: N.C. Mountains

Re: General Fusion in the news

Postby mvanwink5 » Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:14 pm

I still think they have too many moving part

Ever worked in a coal fired power plant? I have. GF's system is simple compared to it. As to 'proclamations' what are you referring to, plasma test results?

On the other hand, the potential for lead spray contamination quenching of the plasma during shockwave compression is an open question. GF thinks they have a solution (jetting in lithium so that the spray is lithium and not lead), but proof is what matters and that only happens when they build and test the 200 piston prototype. It is why these things are called tests.

After years, I am really ready for Polywell to get their hardware funding. Tell me we can expect it this year...
Near term, cheap, dark horse fusion hits the air waves, GF - TED, LM - Announcement. The race is on.

hanelyp
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Re: General Fusion in the news

Postby hanelyp » Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:16 pm

mvanwink5 wrote:Ever worked in a coal fired power plant? I have. GF's system is simple compared to it.

There's parts count and design complexity, and then there's required precision. General Fusion implosion needs a lot more precision than anything I expect to find in a coal plant.
The daylight is uncomfortably bright for eyes so long in the dark.

mvanwink5
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Re: General Fusion in the news

Postby mvanwink5 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:06 am

:D :D :D !!! And less dust.
Near term, cheap, dark horse fusion hits the air waves, GF - TED, LM - Announcement. The race is on.

ladajo
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Re: General Fusion in the news

Postby ladajo » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:25 pm

Ever worked in a coal fired power plant?


Nuc, Co-gens, Biomass, Refuse-Gen, and Water Turbines. Not coal. Although Co-gen, Refuse, and Biomass are pretty similar, including ash and gas mitigations..
Control systems are all pretty similar, and the secondaries and gens are pretty much the same...

And I still think GF has too many moving parts depending on too much high end engineering, some of which doesn't exist yet. Not to mention materials science.

Meh, we will see. However my personal take is less than even odds for them to succeed.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

crowberry
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Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:34 am

Re: General Fusion in the news

Postby crowberry » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:11 pm

General Fusions overview contribution to the 59th Annual Meeting of the APS Division of Plasma Physics conference is titled:
Abstract: UP11.00136 : Magnetized Target Fusion At General Fusion: An Overview

http://meetings.aps.org/Meeting/DPP17/Session/UP11.136

mvanwink5
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Location: N.C. Mountains

Re: General Fusion in the news

Postby mvanwink5 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:41 pm

Real news courtesy of crowberry. Thanks as usual.
https://arpa-e.energy.gov/sites/default ... ABERGE.pdf
• Designing a ~1.5 m radius liquid lithium plasma formation and compression machine
• ~1MA of plasma current spherical tokamak starting plasma (MAST/NSTX class)
• Sub-breakeven but high performance (10 keV at 7e16 cm-3)
• Still costing the machine but estimate ~100 M$
• 3-5 years project
• Will try to raise this money towards the end of this year

I was surprised GF would go for this small machine due to decreased piston number and contamination thereby, but the lithium seems to be their workaround for that. I guess lower $ risk is the bottom line with non Gruberment guys. Also low oil price due to fracking has hurt the oil sands backers. Cash flow?
Near term, cheap, dark horse fusion hits the air waves, GF - TED, LM - Announcement. The race is on.

Skipjack
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Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Re: General Fusion in the news

Postby Skipjack » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:13 am

mvanwink5 wrote:Real news courtesy of crowberry. Thanks as usual.
https://arpa-e.energy.gov/sites/default ... ABERGE.pdf
• Designing a ~1.5 m radius liquid lithium plasma formation and compression machine
• ~1MA of plasma current spherical tokamak starting plasma (MAST/NSTX class)
• Sub-breakeven but high performance (10 keV at 7e16 cm-3)
• Still costing the machine but estimate ~100 M$
• 3-5 years project
• Will try to raise this money towards the end of this year

I was surprised GF would go for this small machine due to decreased piston number and contamination thereby, but the lithium seems to be their workaround for that. I guess lower $ risk is the bottom line with non Gruberment guys. Also low oil price due to fracking has hurt the oil sands backers. Cash flow?

Looks like they are progressing more slowly than anticipated. Several other players are moving towards break even more quickly. TAE does not specify whether "Norman" will do break even at the end of their current 3 year development program. They say "long enough" and "hot enough". That could mean all sorts of things.
Tokamak Energy is looking into the end of 2019 for break even experiments. That is the closest published date that I have seen. JET is still in the race as well, though might be suffering from delays due to insecure funding. Then there is always Lerner and his crew. They have been steadily inching closer to their goals, though they might end up falling short of them in the end.
I also find Uri Shumlak's Sheared Flow Z- Pinch very interesting. It is compact and simple enough to outrun everyone else in the end, provided scaling laws keep being true for higher currents as well. This could lead to an extremely compact and inexpensive reactor design. I am certainly keeping an eye on them and their work. They will be presenting a ton of papers at the APS meeting.

mvanwink5
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Re: General Fusion in the news

Postby mvanwink5 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:28 pm

"breakeven" in a machine? You don't seem to understand development, this is not the milestone. :roll: For instance, in Tokamak it is guaranteed to be breakeven; it is all the other 'details' that are the problem.
Near term, cheap, dark horse fusion hits the air waves, GF - TED, LM - Announcement. The race is on.

Skipjack
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Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Re: General Fusion in the news

Postby Skipjack » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:07 pm

mvanwink5 wrote:"breakeven" in a machine? You don't seem to understand development, this is not the milestone. :roll: For instance, in Tokamak it is guaranteed to be breakeven; it is all the other 'details' that are the problem.

Uhm, I think that reaching a point where they at least have a scientific break even (or above) is the most important milestone. It is the point where the big funding starts to flow. This is why Tokamaks get so much funding right now. They are the closest to break even so far.


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