Sorlox - FRC nautilus compressor

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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Skipjack
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Re: Sorlox - FRC nautilus compressor

Post by Skipjack »

crowberry wrote:
mvanwink5 wrote:For the Sorlox nautilus compressor, I don't understand what keeps the plasma from interacting with the metal wall. Other FRC's and GF use magnetic fields for actual compression of the plasma so wall interaction should not be an issue. At least that is my thinking.
If you watch carefully the animation of the plasma injection, then you can see that a circulating current is induced in the plasma. This is why they are talking about Magnetized Target Fusion (MTF). I assume that they are using a fast current in the plasma generator to kick the plasma with a high speed into the compressor. Once the plasmoid is inside the compressor there will be a rapidly changing magnetic field due to the circulating plasma current which will induce currents in the metal walls of the compressor. These induced currents will be in the opposite direction and create a magnetic field. This is called Lenz's law, see this Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenz_law. This induced magnetic field is what keeps the plasma from hitting the spiral walls. The interesting question is whether they can inject the plasma fast enough so that the kinetic energy is enough to heat and compress the plasma to net energy fusion conditions. It is also of course interesting to see if the plasma can be contained and compressed in this way in the spiral compressor or if some instabilities or other problems will occur. Helion Energy says in their paper that they have reached 300 km/s as the maximum FRC injection speed, but Sorlox says in their video they want to reach v/c=0.01, so they need to go one order of magnitude higher.
Ahh, good explanation!

crowberry
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Re: Sorlox - FRC nautilus compressor

Post by crowberry »

mvanwink5 wrote:Why the nautilus shape though?
To achieve compression the tube must be cone shaped. By turning the tube into a spiral they can simplify the device because they can have the burning plasmoid circulating in the burn chamber in the middle of the device for as long as is needed for the fusion reactions to take place instead of using two colliding plasmoids like Helion Energy, Tri Alpha Energy and General Fusion. The spiral nautilus compressor also makes the device rather small, which is also an advantage for mobile applications.

Skipjack
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Re: Sorlox - FRC nautilus compressor

Post by Skipjack »

I like that they are able to use Deuterium as a fuel, instead of Deuterium and Tritium. That makes the device a lot more attractive. It is not as attractive as PB11, but probably the next best thing. At least they don't have to worry about breeding tritium. They might get that as a side effect, though with a few D+T side reactions also happening, which will increase the neutron radiation created by the device. Since it is pulsed, the D+T side reactions might not be so bad however, if they remove the T after every shot. Still, they will have to handle that and I do have to wonder about the lifetime of the device because of that. On the other hand it seems pretty cheap and compact in nature. So replacing it every so often could be possible.
Is there anyone here who can poke holes into their concept? I am still a bit skeptical, overall, but more optimistic than I was when I first saw it.

crowberry
Posts: 525
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:34 am

Re: Sorlox - FRC nautilus compressor

Post by crowberry »

Skipjack wrote:I like that they are able to use Deuterium as a fuel, instead of Deuterium and Tritium. That makes the device a lot more attractive. It is not as attractive as PB11, but probably the next best thing. At least they don't have to worry about breeding tritium. They might get that as a side effect, though with a few D+T side reactions also happening, which will increase the neutron radiation created by the device. Since it is pulsed, the D+T side reactions might not be so bad however, if they remove the T after every shot. Still, they will have to handle that and I do have to wonder about the lifetime of the device because of that. On the other hand it seems pretty cheap and compact in nature. So replacing it every so often could be possible.
Is there anyone here who can poke holes into their concept? I am still a bit skeptical, overall, but more optimistic than I was when I first saw it.
The induction current heating of the compressor will inject impurities into their plasma, which will cool it down. They have chosen low Z-materials to reduce the plasma cooling due to bremsstrahlung impurities. Increasing the plasmoid speed high enough is one major technical challenge. I'm not sure how they will handle radiation damage in the burn chamber? Maybe the burn chamber has replaceable components? I agree that having some more solid information on the Nautilus compressor would be interesting.

The data sheet for the IP-SDC 100 isotope generator says that the beam mixture is:
Neutrons 2.4 MeV and 14 MeV
Protons 3 MeV and 14.6 MeV
This means that they are running on D-D, but they expect the produced T and He3 to be fused at least to some degree because of the side reactions, because the 14 MeV neutrons come from D-T and the 14,6 MeV protons come from D-He3.

Skipjack
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Re: Sorlox - FRC nautilus compressor

Post by Skipjack »

crowberry wrote: I'm not sure how they will handle radiation damage in the burn chamber? Maybe the burn chamber has replaceable components?
I was thinking the same thing. I am not sure how defined the location is where the fusion reactions start, but if they have a small replaceable "end piece", that gets the majority of the neutrons, then they could do what Helion is planning to do (simply switch the part when it is too damaged). I guess it depends on the geometry there as well.
crowberry wrote: The data sheet for the IP-SDC 100 isotope generator says that the beam mixture is:
Neutrons 2.4 MeV and 14 MeV
Protons 3 MeV and 14.6 MeV
This means that they are running on D-D, but they expect the produced T and He3 to be fused at least to some degree because of the side reactions, because the 14 MeV neutrons come from D-T and the 14,6 MeV protons come from D-He3.
Yeah, that's what I assumed as well.

JoeP
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Re: Sorlox - FRC nautilus compressor

Post by JoeP »

crowberry wrote:
mvanwink5 wrote:For the Sorlox nautilus compressor, I don't understand what keeps the plasma from interacting with the metal wall. Other FRC's and GF use magnetic fields for actual compression of the plasma so wall interaction should not be an issue. At least that is my thinking.
If you watch carefully the animation of the plasma injection, then you can see that a circulating current is induced in the plasma. This is why they are talking about Magnetized Target Fusion (MTF). I assume that they are using a fast current in the plasma generator to kick the plasma with a high speed into the compressor. Once the plasmoid is inside the compressor there will be a rapidly changing magnetic field due to the circulating plasma current which will induce currents in the metal walls of the compressor. These induced currents will be in the opposite direction and create a magnetic field. This is called Lenz's law, see this Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenz_law. This induced magnetic field is what keeps the plasma from hitting the spiral walls. The interesting question is whether they can inject the plasma fast enough so that the kinetic energy is enough to heat and compress the plasma to net energy fusion conditions. It is also of course interesting to see if the plasma can be contained and compressed in this way in the spiral compressor or if some instabilities or other problems will occur. Helion Energy says in their paper that they have reached 300 km/s as the maximum FRC injection speed, but Sorlox says in their video they want to reach v/c=0.01, so they need to go one order of magnitude higher.
Interesting explanation! As a kid, I remember playing around with something like this (Eddy currents) -- dropping strong magnets down copper pipes and watching them float down much slower than gravity.

So...as the rotating plasma moves down the curved tube, the induced magnetic field might also increase as the plasma compresses, since it will rotate faster, due to conservation of angular momentum and reducing radius? Then that increased rotation would further increase the power of the induced currents/magnetic field and continue to contain the ever compressing plasma? A nice feedback effect.

I'm thinking of the plasma as a rotating ball or disk though. Would not the "poles" of the plasma disk or sphere have far less momentum, and thus generate much less induced currents and magnetic field strength, and thus contact the walls of the compressor?

mvanwink5
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Location: N.C. Mountains

Re: Sorlox - FRC nautilus compressor

Post by mvanwink5 »

Look, induction motors work that way and resistance heating from induced current is a major issue. I'll believe they can get practical fusion when they get net fusion without compressor meltdown. Just saying.
Near term, cheap, dark horse fusion hits the air waves, GF - TED, LM - Announcement. The race is on.

paperburn1
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Location: Third rock from the sun.

Re: Sorlox - FRC nautilus compressor

Post by paperburn1 »

plasma torus?
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

crowberry
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Re: Sorlox - FRC nautilus compressor

Post by crowberry »

Here is a page that details the DARPA funding that Sorlox has obtained. http://government-contracts.findthebest ... 01111C0027. This is rather similar to the Polywell reports ...
Last edited by crowberry on Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

Skipjack
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Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Re: Sorlox - FRC nautilus compressor

Post by Skipjack »

What fileformat is that?
Edit, better go here. This link works for me:
http://government-contracts.findthebest.com/l/2537536/

crowberry
Posts: 525
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:34 am

Re: Sorlox - FRC nautilus compressor

Post by crowberry »

There is an article about the instrumentation that Sorlox uses to measure the properties of the compact toroid that they create and accelerate for injection and compression in their spiral device. The article is two pages with most of the content spent on explaining fusion in general as well as describing the tokamak and ICF concepts, but still it is nice to see some news also on the Sorlox concept.
Measuring fusion reactions in real time
by Dirk Eberlein in Evaluating Engineering http://www.evaluationengineering.com/eb ... ces/35.htm

crowberry
Posts: 525
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:34 am

Re: Sorlox - FRC nautilus compressor

Post by crowberry »

Sorlox has a web page in South Korea too: http://sorlox.co.kr/?act=gallery.page&pcode=product.
The layout of the website is different from the US website. Almost all text is in Korean, with only a few words in English, so it is impossible to understand without understanding Korean. Google translate is not very helpful on that site. Still it is interesting to see that Sorlox has some activities also in South Korea.

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