Radiant Matter Research - The Polywell In The Neatherlands

[mattman]

Hey guys,

Just came across this group today. Based on what I see here, this looks pretty serious.

http://www.radiantmatter.com/

Anyone know anything about these guys?

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Also, the Polywell is being supported by Australia's Democratic Labour Party. It is on their platform.

http://www.dlp.org.au/policies/energy/p ... ma-fusion/

[hanelyp]

Looking at the image heading http://www.radiantmatter.com/content/polywell, I figure they didn't get the lessons of WB-6:
- keep paths clear for electron circulation.
- round casing to avoid field line paths and resist electric discharge.

[Skipjack]

It looks a bit off to me. E.g. they call it the "Buckyball effect". But maybe something good will come out of it.

[D Tibbets]

Looking at the image heading http://www.radiantmatter.com/content/polywell, I figure they didn't get the lessons of WB-6:
- keep paths clear for electron circulation.
- round casing to avoid field line paths and resist electric discharge.

Indeed the drawing would be much worse than WB4. mostly because the support/ interconnects are inside the machine. But at least there is some spacing and they do mention some diagnostic capability. Hopefully the marketing drawing does not represent the true (if real) design. Also some textual errors in their brief description- like confining virtual anode instead of cathode. Perhaps they are confused by the central vertual anode that can form in the Polywell due to ion convergence, but which is counter to ion confluence and limits some aspects of the Polywell. Certainly the shielded anode (not virtual) of the magrid is the driving force for the machine, but this external perspective would not seem to show much enlightenment.

Dan Tibbets

[Teemu]

Radiant Matter Research also relies heavily on open-source software to avoid the cost of expensive software licenses. A comprehensive list can be found here.

If they have to choose open source programs because lack of money, even if they preferred some commercial option, it is kinda sign that they don't have enough funding for the expensive hardware to significantly contribute to polywell science.

The state of the EMC2 polywell project:
Most of the relevant relatively low-cost basic science is already done, now they need more money for the raw engineering crunch. But DoD can't give them as much funding as required for that, that would guarantee that DoE would get involved, and DoE would rely on science establishment, that would say that Polywell can't work, and DoE would block larger funding. So basically they have to figure out how to make impressive enough demonstration with lackluster funding, so that DoE/science establishment can't say that Polywell wont work, so that proper funding can't be blocked.

This seems like yet another very low funding polywell project, which if it ever moves on from repeating the already gazillion times repeated Farnsworth Fusor experiments, then it moves just to repeating EMC2 experiments, except because of having even lower funding than EMC2, and thus worse hardware, their results will be less significant.

[mvanwink5]

The state of the EMC2 polywell project:
Most of the relevant relatively low-cost basic science is already done, now they need more money for the raw engineering crunch.

The Navy funding for polywell has been barely enough to show scaling, but as you say, further progress requires money on the order invested by the VC groups that are funding Tri Alpha and General Fusion. It is possible that the P-B11 option is going to be taken up by the Navy, but somehow I wonder if the machine size even with positive p-B11 results will be enough to convince anyone to up the funds to the level of serous investors.

The only hope I have is that General Fusion breaks even in the near term and breaks the ITER - NIF funding monopoly log jam and fees up some cash. Even then, I don't see polywell getting serious funds for another 2 years while they piddle with the p-B11 option.

Just what one would expect with government programs (dominated by politics and bureaucrats). So much for the "superior' intellect of Plato progressives.

[crowberry]

If one believes what Eric Lerner told about the Google Solve for X fusion meeting in June this year then Lawrenceville Plasma Physics is currently supposed to be ahead of General Fusion, Tri Alpha Energy and Lockheed Martin in being nearest to achieve break even. LPP seems to be the most funding constrained enterprise of all of these fusion companies, so it could be that General Fusion pulls ahead if they can solve the physics problems of their device. I think that the Sorlox device is the simplest of them all, but with no hard data available it is hard to judge their possibilities. They have claimed that they might achieve break even in 18 months after they have gotten their new power supply. Anyway it is a very good situation with General Fusion, LPP and Sorlox aiming for break even in the coming year(s).

It would be very interesting to see the presentations from the previous Google Solve for X fusion meeting from the other participants. Bussard asked whether Google should go nuclear. At least they would have the funds necessary to do so if they wanted to and it is nice that they are promoting fusion meetings and so on. It is also interesting to note that Lockheed Martin participated in the Solve for X meeting, but EMC2 did not participate.

It is nice to see more Polywell research starting like Radiant Matter Research, but to surpass the EMC2 level will require significant funding. As long as the Navy keeps their Polywell results unpublished it is likely to stay like that.

[mvanwink5]

crowberry, as I understand it, LPP has a large issue, which is how to convert the xrays to useable energy, and I believe this is necessary to economically produce power for them. They have the onion as the proposed device to make that conversion, but I don't know if it has been verified as able to do the job. Have you heard if it has? All the other approaches have straight forward solutions for converting fusion to electrical power once they achieve their fusion goals.

[crowberry]

crowberry, as I understand it, LPP has a large issue, which is how to convert the xrays to useable energy, and I believe this is necessary to economically produce power for them. They have the onion as the proposed device to make that conversion, but I don't know if it has been verified as able to do the job. Have you heard if it has? All the other approaches have straight forward solutions for converting fusion to electrical power once they achieve their fusion goals.

Yes, you are right that LPP needs to develop new technology in order to make electricity. Producing electricity is rather straightforward for General Fusion as they plan to use an ordinary steam cycle. I was only thinking of break even itself and who gets there first, because that will be a game changer for the whole field. But obviously the first to achieve break even is not necessarily the first to achieve practical power production.

By the way the Radiant Matter Research has been mentioned previously on this forum:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4326
I would guess that this thread also mentions the same guys
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3082
So they have plans on building a superconducting Polywell.

[crowberry]

Here are the posts that I could find on the Fusor.Net forums by Martijn Rambonnet on the fusors that they have built. They have acquired some good equipment in their lab and they are really serious on building a Polywell.

Introduction by Martijn Rambonnet » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:56 am
http://www.fusor.net/board/viewtopic.ph ... 837&p=9058

First Bubbles! by Caspar12 » Sat May 14, 2011 11:33 pm
http://www.fusor.net/board/viewtopic.ph ... 28&p=12638

RMR-Farnsworth Fusor 5 by Martijn Rambonnet » Thu May 02, 2013 10:55 pm
http://www.fusor.net/board/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8516

Whether or not a polywell is a feasible fusor concept is of course the big question but for us it is mainly about the challenge to recreate at least some of the basic results/phenomenons reported by Bussard.

[mvanwink5]

Not to take anything away from Famulous, but these guys are definitely more together amateurs, so I expect that they will be able to get to polywell first base (little league). EMC2 - Navy effort is serious in comparison. Then there are the big boys in the fusion effort (General Fusion and Tri Alpha, I don't include LM as their funding is likely in the order of what EMC2 is getting, maybe...). Remember EMC2's plasma diagnostics took a step change when they were able to employ the microwave plasma measurements. As a comparison, the amateur efforts are still working on using a Langmuir probe.

I am hoping EMC2 has broken through the university funding level to the VC funding level with WB-8 success, but we are talking about government politicians and bureaucrats here, not the same class of risk takers or people with imagination and drive. Plus I don't see a road map for EMC2 to get to that level either.

Oh, well, two on base and one (two?) warming up to bat.

[Teemu]

Also, the Polywell is being supported by Australia's Democratic Labour Party. It is on their platform.

http://www.dlp.org.au/policies/energy/p ... ma-fusion/

Democratic Labour Party is very small party, it gets usually around 1% of vote, has only 1 Senate seat and nobody in the House of Representatives, so in its size it is same size as parties like Family First Party and Australian Motoring Enthusiast Party, which also get around 1% of vote and have 1 senator.

[D Tibbets]

I withdraw what I said in my prevous post about the bridging 'nubs' being a terrible design. If they have adicuate electromagnet windings through they they may be adiquatly shielded. That does still leave the square can cross section problem though.

Dan Tibbets

[D Tibbets]

Before the renewed Navy funding, Bussard did say he had received several (one?) VC offer, but rejected it for undisclosed reasons. Was it money amount, controlling interest, fear that it have could be an attempt to suppress...?

It is interesting that the Polywell is on at least someone's political agenda, even if it is a small minority party.

Dan Tibbets

[hanelyp]

Enough amp-turns through the nubs would shield the nubs, but disrupt field symmetry.