em drive

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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Betruger
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Re: em drive

Postby Betruger » Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:25 am

Thanks Birchoff.

GIThruster
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Re: em drive

Postby GIThruster » Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:39 pm

One of the annoying things for me, and why I haven't invested myself in following this more closely; is that everyone understands Shawyer's explanation for how this produces thrust cannot be correct. Sonny got involved because he claims his QVF model explains the thrust here (though he claims this about EVERYONE's work!) The obvious trouble is, that Sonny's QVF model requires that virtual partials transfer momentum, but do not gravitate (or they would collapse the universe) and this is a direct violation of Einstein's Equivalence Principle (EEP). If Sonny is right, all of GR is wrong.

Sorry but I'm betting on Einstein, especially given Sonny's proclivity to misreport, exaggerate, perversely censor important details and otherwise violate standard scientific reporting through his colorful narratives and outright bullshit.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

birchoff
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Re: em drive

Postby birchoff » Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:23 am


williatw
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Re: em drive

Postby williatw » Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:28 am


birchoff
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Re: em drive

Postby birchoff » Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:05 am


qraal
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Re: em drive

Postby qraal » Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:18 am

Glad someone has read Gerry and Jeff's preprint. I sent the link to Sonny White & Paul March, but haven't yet read it myself. It seems either Gerry & Jeff have misinterpreted what White's testing with his test articles or they've provided a useful analysis of the "null hypothesis" - that a given test article only produces a warp compatible with normal GR effects, rather than the abnormal effects Sonny is hoping to see. One of the test articles was a Mach-Effect Thruster, which *might* produce a larger warp effect than plain vanilla GR predicts.
The Universe is weirder than we can imagine

Aero
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Re: em drive

Postby Aero » Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:32 pm

Aero

GIThruster
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Re: em drive

Postby GIThruster » Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:26 pm

"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

Carl White
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Re: em drive

Postby Carl White » Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:19 pm


AcesHigh
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Re: em drive

Postby AcesHigh » Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:15 pm

I doubt the chinese spent enough money and human resources researching the EM Drive compared to their huge economy. If anything, I would say the counter-intel scam operation would have cost more money than the chinese spend, and that´s a ridiculous small drop in the ocean for both US and China's economies.

birchoff
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Re: em drive

Postby birchoff » Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:58 am


GIThruster
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Re: em drive

Postby GIThruster » Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:12 pm

Excuse you, but don't lecture me about my assumptions while you're busy making assumptions. You sound ridiculous.

I don't have any need to present arguments nor evidence that comes to what you are proposing is the proper standard. When I say for example, that Sonny and Paul built a Shawyer resonator and hung it from a 2 meter penduluum in the garage, I am speaking from experience. I have known these two for almost a decade, and was appraised of their work when it was in progress, from the time before they approached Gary for funds until the day he cut them off for lack of results. There is no intellectual duty to the truth that forces me to pander to your ignorance on these issues, and I am not going to spend ANY time researching for evidence for you. Do it yourself.

The Shawyer work was paid for by the Brits for many years without reasonable results. In fact, the work was not even provided proper scientific controls. After years of serious support, the Brits had had enough and dropped the program. WHILE ALL THIS WAS GOING ON, from a time BEFORE THE FUNDS FOR THAT PROGRAM ARRIVED, all sensible people argued that Shawyer was an engineer, not a physicist, and that he did not understand what the concept of "group velocity" entails, and that what he was proposing was based upon his faulty understanding and which led to an obvious violation of conservation. All this is true, but those arguments are NOT why the Shawyer work was defunded in Britain. It was defunded because it failed to produce results, just as the replication done by Sonny and Paul (my mentor) failed to produce results.

Although I have not wasted my time on the recent stuff from China, I would note to you that they have had funding for this for several years now, and until lately, their reports were not of positive test results. Why they should suddenly have positive test results is beyond me, but I do know its not because Shawyer is right, because we know he is not, and it is not because Sonny is right, because we know he is not. If they're getting significant results in China, and at JSC, it is not the result of good science, because good science does not violate conservation (Shawyer's explanation) nor Einstein's Equivalence Principle (Sonny's explanation).

My belief is, this is all just another continuing counter-intel con game. It's noteworthy that it arrived exactly at the point where Sonny was scrambling for funding. Sonny was funded until September and until very recently, the story was that unless they could both get additional funding for Eagle, and produce the 0.4N/kWe thrust to power efficiency they had promised, they would close shop by October 1. Now suddenly despite they have not made their thrust efficiency goals, they have funding through June 2015. And this magically appearing funding is likely in no small portion the result of these supposed "findings" in China.

Just use a little common sense. The Chinese don't release test results without a purpose. In this instance, it seems to me completely likely, their purpose is to throw one of the CIA's barbs back in their faces, and it seems it worked! And seriously, if you don't know how these things happen and go on year after year, don't post some childish note telling me you're upset for my assumptions. My judgements are based on as much an insider's knowledge as is possible without being an insider. One thing you can count on--none of this is what it seems. This is how the CIA and places like China do their daily duty to their countries--through misinformation counterintelligence scams. The outcome is, that Eagle has funding for another year, and it looks like NASA Glenn is going to replicate their work. So we'll see what we see, after a few million more dollars. Trouble is, we ought to be spending those dollars on something that has a chance to work like M-E physics, rather than on this.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

birchoff
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Re: em drive

Postby birchoff » Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:58 pm


Skipjack
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Re: em drive

Postby Skipjack » Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:11 pm

NASA is not an entity.

GIThruster
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Re: em drive

Postby GIThruster » Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:01 pm

"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis


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