ESA IXV a success!

[GIThruster]

http://www.spaceflightinsider.com/organ ... st-flight/

http://www.epiqspace.com/general/video- ... plashdown/

IXV is the Intermediate design that will find its completion in another form, but this is a significant step for the Europeans. Lots of technical challenges met here, new design, new materials, new GN&C.

Very nice to see ESA make a great showing!

[Skipjack]

I am still trying to figure out what this thing will end up leading to. I mean new TPS materials are great, new guidance is great but not that special (SpaceX does the same for their Dragon capsules).
The lifting body shape could be interesting for VTOL second stages or VTOL SSTOs. Though I do have to wonder how well it would do without a protective faring. Part of the problems with the X-33/Venture Star was the lifting body shape... At least this one is not quite as extreme but would not allow for a gliding landing and would require landing engines... if it was ever going to land on land. But then you have to wonder why bother with that shape at all and not just do propulsive landing like SpaceX does.

[GIThruster]

But then you have to wonder why bother with that shape at all and not just do propulsive landing like SpaceX does.

Wings are sexy. They're easier to sell than capsules.

[Skipjack]

But the thing did not have wings (but a lifting body, a very subtle one too).

[GIThruster]

Could be they just want the cross range. That's the only significant difference I can see. It's less stabile than a capsule, but it would have better cross range.

[Skipjack]

True cross range would be an advantage. That would be important if you wanted to do a single polar orbit and then land at the launch site.

[GIThruster]

That was one of the justifications USAF used when they pushed for the Shuttle's redesign. They wanted far better cross range, and they wanted a space truck that could haul big bits.

[Skipjack]

That was one of the justifications USAF used when they pushed for the Shuttle's redesign. They wanted far better cross range, and they wanted a space truck that could haul big bits.

Yeah, unfortunately they did that. The performance requirements for the shuttle were way to ambitious for a first generation RLV. The result was a design full of compromises and the resulting eternal stigma that RLVs just cant be done...
Thank god a "crazy dreamer" like Elon Musk came along to show how it is done right. Imagine if NASA had dome the same thing Musk is doing now, instead of the shuttle! Where we could be now!

[GIThruster]

Imagine if NASA had dome the same thing Musk is doing now, instead of the shuttle! Where we could be now!

Trouble is, there is no motivation for civil servants to build more affordable transport. For this you need to look to private industry, capitalism and competition.

[Skipjack]

Imagine if NASA had dome the same thing Musk is doing now, instead of the shuttle! Where we could be now!

Trouble is, there is no motivation for civil servants to build more affordable transport. For this you need to look to private industry, capitalism and competition.

Well it depends on how you look at it. Until very recently capitalism did nothing to lower the cost of space access, instead certain corporations made sure that they any means possible so that the pie was split nicely between them without them competing at all. And because of that, we have not made any advances is space launch in 40 years and this makes me very angry.

[Diogenes]

Trouble is, there is no motivation for civil servants to build more affordable transport. For this you need to look to private industry, capitalism and competition.

Well it depends on how you look at it. Until very recently capitalism did nothing to lower the cost of space access, instead certain corporations made sure that they any means possible so that the pie was split nicely between them without them competing at all. And because of that, we have not made any advances is space launch in 40 years and this makes me very angry.

That government crony run stuff is what you are calling "Capitalism"?

[Skipjack]

Trouble is, there is no motivation for civil servants to build more affordable transport. For this you need to look to private industry, capitalism and competition.

Well it depends on how you look at it. Until very recently capitalism did nothing to lower the cost of space access, instead certain corporations made sure that they any means possible so that the pie was split nicely between them without them competing at all. And because of that, we have not made any advances is space launch in 40 years and this makes me very angry.

That government crony run stuff is what you are calling "Capitalism"?

I think you are missing the point. There is a commercial market for space launch but it was served by few companies that never cared about lowering the cost of space access either...

[GIThruster]

I think you are missing the point. There is a commercial market for space launch but it was served by few companies that never cared about lowering the cost of space access either...

This is true, but note it's predicated on the fact there are so few companies. It's not like the auto industry nor even aeronautics during the golden age of air travel. All the older aero companies eventually merged or bought each other out, and much of this happened just during the time of the Shuttle. Was it Marietta bought Martin, and they bought Rockwell, which was bought by Boeing. Boeing merged with Lock-Mart who was already the merger of many companies and the two are allowed this insane anti-trust violation called ULA. The USG is pandering to the purses, in exactly what Dwight Eisenhower warned us about would happen with the Military Industrial Complex, and this is why we need an outlier like SpaceX to shake things up. While I agree monopoly has a place in starting or rejuvenating an industry, monopolies only exist for a few years until everyone copies them. They are not intended to ever be institutionalized the way we have in the aerospace industry. SpaceX has worked hard to create a monopoly on reusable rockets, but they need to recover their costs before Boeing and Lock-Mart start to give them real competition. If they refuse to compete, they will sacrifice their place or even shrivel up and blow away.

[mvanwink5]

There is a commercial market for space launch but it was served by few companies that never cared about lowering the cost of space access either...

Until Musk... (and other competitors). And, boy did they try traditional crony tricks to keep Musk from bidding using political buddies.

[Skipjack]

There is a commercial market for space launch but it was served by few companies that never cared about lowering the cost of space access either...

Until Musk... (and other competitors). And, boy did they try traditional crony tricks to keep Musk from bidding using political buddies.

True, it is worth mentioning though that Musk also has had some good help from the current government, against the bickering from the usual suspects in congress who were very upset about their friends in the aforementioned defense companies loosing their monopoly. They still are trying to hurt SpaceX (and also commercial crew) wherever they can.