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New Polywell Article On HotGas

Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 11:48 am
by MSimon

Re: New Polywell Article On HotGas

Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 12:30 pm
by ladajo
Hi Mike, nice to see you around. You really should stop telling folks you are an engineer, when you don't have the credentials. It would be more appropriate to say you worked in aerospace electronics engineering. You might even make claim to being an engineering technician, although that too now has credentialing.

Anyway, good luck with marketing your Proton-Boron group effort.

Re: New Polywell Article On HotGas

Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 1:27 pm
by MSimon
ladajo wrote:Hi Mike, nice to see you around. You really should stop telling folks you are an engineer, when you don't have the credentials. It would be more appropriate to say you worked in aerospace electronics engineering. You might even make claim to being an engineering technician, although that too now has credentialing.

Anyway, good luck with marketing your Proton-Boron group effort.

You might want to read the comments. And I am an engineer. Just uncredentialed. Autodidacts don't get no respect. LOL. If it matters to you - don't hire me. I won't be offended.

Or as I love to say - I'm UNQUALIFIED for the work I do. ROTFLMAO.

Oh. Yeah. I don't have a degree in writing either. Heh.

And one other thing. Credentialism is so 20th Century. Makes you sound ancient. I have been 21st Century all my life.

The best companies don't ask for credentials these days. The relevant question is "Can you do the work?" Sixty one years so far. And I'm still learning.

Re: New Polywell Article On HotGas

Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 2:01 pm
by ladajo
Your appeal to authority opening in the article is beneath you Mike. You claim that credentials don't matter, yet your default is to make the claim.
Seems that if you truly believed what you are saying, then you would stop using the claim. You could simply say that you work in the field, and have experience in <insert appropriate blah blah>. I know what you have done, and you should be proud. However, you tend to come across with this underlying anger that folks don't take you seriously, and it is emphasized with the 'take me serious because I am a real engineer' openings. This becomes very apparent when you are rightfully challenged on it.
Would you claim a PE? Would you claim membership to any Professional Engineering society? Engineering is a profession. And as such it is supported by members who meet defined requirements, as well as adheres to practices and principles which are also defined. This is the part that escapes you; there are fundamental reasons that this has become the norm., and in fact supported by law. Your claim that it is passed and opening thinking is merely wishful on your part.
Professions are commonly defined as:
Having a common body of knowledge
Having defined and established performance standards
Having a representative Professional Organization or Society that regulates its members
Having a Code of Ethics and Principles
Having members who are appropriately formally trained and credentialed
Has a career path and defined and established Professional Development processes / requirements
Has a requirement for practitioners to make use of an established academic discipline and knowledge field (which is closely related to common body of knowledge) which is advanced through research and study.

It is unethical to claim to be a member of an established Profession, when you do not meet membership requirements or standards, which are primarily based in what members feel is appropriate to ensure the profession remains <gasp> "Professional" and "Ethical".

You have no more right to claim being an actual Engineer, than to claiming you are a Doctor.
Nice to know you are now also an Autodidact; self proclaimed again.
You are a smart guy Mike, and you know that I believe that. You do not need to demand respect with artificial claims. People will respect you based on what you do, not what you say. Always the anarchist, fighting "the man" who you believe keeps you down. It really is yourself that keeps you down Mike, not some mythical "man".

Anyway, again, best of luck with your Proton-Boron effort.

Re: New Polywell Article On HotGas

Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 4:10 pm
by MSimon
[quote="ladajo"][/quote]

I got paid to be an engineer. I had the title of engineer. I did engineering work.

Was I an engineer? Well certainly not a PE. But most engineers are not PE.

But if credentialism is a big deal with you you can always ignore me. In fact I'd prefer it.

I do get your point. I'm not a guild member. I have met more than a few guild members who are idiots. I'm very happy to not be one of those.

Re: New Polywell Article On HotGas

Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 4:12 pm
by pdxpyro
This (credentials) is an interesting discussion, but waaaaay OT. Can we get some discussion regarding the actual article? Or, is the "credential" discussion fundamental to understanding the article? If not, maybe start a new thread.

Re: New Polywell Article On HotGas

Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 4:30 pm
by ladajo
Not much to discuss about the 'article", as it is merely a marketing blurb to support Mike's "Proton-Boron" project.
That is why he cross posted it here, to get some hits.

In any event, this is not the first time Mike has been called out by me, or others regarding his misrepresentation of himself. He has a compulsive need to matter, and one of the ways he goes about it is to aggrandize himself. This behaviour is a shame, because it undermines his talents and contribution potential. Meh.

Oh, and Mike, I have been paid to do many things, but that does not make me a professional in a number of them. If you want to define being a professional in a field as the mere collection of money for having done some work there, then you are truly missing the point on what a profession is about. It is way more than the ability to convince folks to give you money, and this is what you did not learn by not successfully pursuing a true engineering career path. Anyone can do monkey work Mike. True contribution and advancement of the art and field is another thing.

Re: New Polywell Article On HotGas

Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 6:28 pm
by TDPerk
ladajo wrote:Not much to ... is another thing.


If he's doing engineering, he's an engineer. If he has 62 years of experience at it, he's probably competent.

That does justify some claim to be an authority in my book.

" He has a compulsive need to matter, and one of the ways he goes about it is to aggrandize himself. This behaviour is a shame, because it undermines his talents and contribution potential. "
&
"This becomes very apparent when you are rightfully challenged on it."

And in the event the Polywell works, in publicizing and promoting it, he will have done more for humanity than all but a very few people in history.

In my view, your "challenge" is bullshit and he has a right to be pissed at you.

You may think it's unfair for a degree not to mean much in sweep of history, but it doesn't.

If you do something professionally, then you're a professional at doing that thing. That's is all.

Re: New Polywell Article On HotGas

Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 7:45 pm
by ladajo
As Mike well knows, I respect his talent and accomplishments. I do not however agree with misrepresentation.
I to can claim to be a number of things based on professional work. However, I reserve what I claim based on respect for professional communities.

As for promoting or support for Polywell, you have no idea what I may or may not have done. Mike, does however have some idea, but not you. In any event, that is not the point, it is about defending the concept of Professionals. Which is something different from someone who takes money for work peformed. While a colloquial profession, it does not make them a Professional. Mike has done engineering work, but he is not a Professional. It does not mean his work was not good, as I know some of it was very good. It still does not make him a Professional.

Re: New Polywell Article On HotGas

Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 7:56 pm
by mvanwink5
Florida now requires an engineering degree to take the PE exams. Years ago it was not that way. It is now.

Re: New Polywell Article On HotGas

Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 8:22 pm
by JoeP
Hmm...so was Steve Wozniak an engineer, or just a talented hardware and software hacker, when he designed the early Apple systems, or after he got his degree in 1986, which was well after his more important contributions? In my mind, he was an engineer (little 'e' perhaps) as soon as he started designing his groundbreaking microcomputer systems.

So I personally don't think it matters much, but I can understand the POV...if you put in the time and work to get the title and membership in the professional societies, then I can understand, if not fully appreciate, why one might take a little affront at the title being used loosely.

I do agree with Ladajo's points in the other thread about Doctorate title misappropriation however. I think it is even against many laws to falsely assume such, especially in medical discipline.

Re: New Polywell Article On HotGas

Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 1:44 am
by TDPerk
"It does not mean his work was not good, as I know some of it was very good. It still does not make him a Professional."

Yes it does.

A trade union acting as a cat's paw for the state, or the state acting as a cat's paw for it, is a contemptible conspiracy against the public.

Re: New Polywell Article On HotGas

Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 5:37 am
by pdxpyro
@ladajo
My apologies. Now (having actually read through the article) I see your point. (Shoulda done that first . . . rats!)

Re: New Polywell Article On HotGas

Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 11:07 am
by MSimon
pdxpyro wrote:@ladajo
My apologies. Now (having actually read through the article) I see your point. (Shoulda done that first . . . rats!)


It is a relatively non technical article for the general public.

Lots of people who had never heard of Polywell were introduced.

EMC2 was linked and it was noted that they needed funds. Also noted was some high school kids who are building a Polywell experiment. AFAIK my group is the only one suggesting SC magnets right now. And my reasons for that were given.

I would suggest that the rest of you might try writing something and getting it published. The more people that know of Polywell the more likely it is to get funded. At the very least you could be doing what I did in 2006 - 2007. Leaving Polywell in comments all around the 'net. I still do that.

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. - T. Roosevelt

Re: New Polywell Article On HotGas

Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 11:23 am
by ladajo
pdxpyro wrote:@ladajo
My apologies. Now (having actually read through the article) I see your point. (Shoulda done that first . . . rats!)


No worries. Thanks for owning it.