Bill Gates is heading a $1 billion venture fund to combat climate change

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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NotAPhysicist
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Re: Bill Gates is heading a $1 billion venture fund to combat climate change

Postby NotAPhysicist » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:02 pm

I'm still fascinated by the ability to conflate the whole "vaccines cause autism" thing with AGW.

The vaccine thing was a load of rubbish and has been roundly debunked by the scientific community and not without quite an expenditure of resources beyond those initially invested to demonstrate safety. I'm pretty suspicious of big-pharma as it were myself but, crikey, this was stomped hard. And still the theory persists. And here you are saying, that was right, go science, shame people still believe that crazy idea?

But AGW, no. All scientists (excepting a small minority) overwhelming backing AGW can't be true, they are all corrupt and perpetuating this. And this against a back drop of large organisations who have a vested interest minimising disruption to their bottom line or possibly their survival which actually doing something about carbon emissions would effect. Erm, okay... I mean heck, we could try and have a nuanced conversation based more around probabilities but that requires some acknowledgement that people aren't basically lying at every turn about everything which seems to be the counter position - I can see why people hunker down and resort to absolutes.

This is frankly odd.
Pick your conspiracy or your not a conspiracy and darn the evidence and certainly darn anyone who provides evidence you don't like.

charliem
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Re: Bill Gates is heading a $1 billion venture fund to combat climate change

Postby charliem » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:34 pm

Yes, it is unfortunate that some science has been politicized these last decades, although I don't think we can blame that on the scientists.

My take on Occam's Razor is a bit different that pbelter's. In my opinion Einstein explained its essence quite well in this famous quote of his: “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler". And I emphasize that "but no simpler".

I can't agree that "if something is very complex it is unlikely to be true", at least not as a general principle, because there are a lot of things (in and out of science) that are complex, and time and again are demonstrated to be true; quantum theory comes to mind, the mechanisms of biological evolution, the causes and mechanisms of cancer, ...

Some of these things are so complex that we haven't been able to make heads or tails of them yet ... but they are true, we know it.

To use a simile: It sounds Intuitively impossible that something as simple as the genetic code inside a single cell, can give rise to something as complex as a person. There is no way that you can compress so much info in such a little space. No way. Except, of course, that we are confronted every day with the reality that it can.

It's been proven time and again, intuition can be misleading, in fact in science it is often more hurdle than help.

Everyone talks according with his/her experience. In the past I've been so sure of certain things, only to later realize that I had been wrong that now the first person I tend to be suspicious of is myself.

In the end, I think it all comes down to trust. If we don't keep it in check, human's innate paranoid streak will make our lives more "interesting".

By the way, now that we've mentioned vaccines. Have you heard of the entenovirus D-68? It causes an illness in children that looks a lot like polio, and like polio it leaves life-long consequences, like paralysis ... for those who survive.

It is getting more common fast and there is no cure at present. I wonder what the anti-vac crowd is going to say about it. Are they going to state, according with their creed, that it is better for children to "pass it the natural way", that we should not develop a vaccine, or are they going to ask for the research?
"The problem is not what we don't know, but what we do know [that] isn't so" (Mark Twain)

pbelter
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Re: Bill Gates is heading a $1 billion venture fund to combat climate change

Postby pbelter » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:27 pm

Let me clarify. If something is very complex to the point that additional theories must be invented to keep it afloat, then it is unlikely to be true.
In AGW additional theories are needed to explain why:

- the pole ice is melting while south pole is growing. CO2 is pretty much 400 ppm in both cases
- Mars has global weather fluctuations that seem to correlate with Earth.
- a CO2 in jar experiment shows no warming despite having several orders of magnitude more CO2 that the levels that are blamed for AGW
- it was cooling after WWi and CO2 production did not slow
- etc.

When you have to come up with additional theories to explain why observations don't match with the main theory then Ockham's razor says the main theory is not plausible.

I could not care less what the anti-vaccine crowd thinks. Since most vaccines are not 100% effective they do cause the diseases to spread to children that are not vaccinated causing a problem. For me is a very small problem because the vaccines are nearly 100% effective and my kids get vaccinated.
It may be a problem for them but it is not my concern what other people do with their lives.

The anti-vaccine movement is a small fallacy, nothing like AGW that want to put us under a heel of over-regulating government, excessive taxation stifling innovation and promoting harmful anti growth ideologies .
This does affects us all and has consequences for the entire human civilization. What is there are hostile aliens in outer space and we slowed our growth just on our eve of venturing out there?

Back in high school I was very intrigued by a historical question. Why there is so much intellectual creation and development in ancient Greece, but hardly any in the Byzantine Empire. Same language, same people, same area and if anything the Byzantines were more wealthy and had better tech. The main difference that there was a centralized government in the empire that could persecute ideas or initiatives it didn't like.

If you look at the wealth map in Italy you will see that the northern regions are much more wealthy then the south. This was not the case in the ancient times but changed in middle ages. The south was politically united first under Byzantines then on their own. It is 150 years since this has ended and the effects are still pronounced.

AGW is just another excuse for consolidation of central power, overregulations that restrict economic and by implication scientific growth. If we let them to get away with that the effect can be felt for centuries as well.

NotAPhysicist
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Re: Bill Gates is heading a $1 billion venture fund to combat climate change

Postby NotAPhysicist » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:18 pm


pbelter
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Re: Bill Gates is heading a $1 billion venture fund to combat climate change

Postby pbelter » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:31 am

Last edited by pbelter on Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

pbelter
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Re: Bill Gates is heading a $1 billion venture fund to combat climate change

Postby pbelter » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:50 am

duplicate
Last edited by pbelter on Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

pbelter
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Re: Bill Gates is heading a $1 billion venture fund to combat climate change

Postby pbelter » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:51 am

duplicate

charliem
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Re: Bill Gates is heading a $1 billion venture fund to combat climate change

Postby charliem » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:15 am

Last edited by charliem on Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The problem is not what we don't know, but what we do know [that] isn't so" (Mark Twain)

choff
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Re: Bill Gates is heading a $1 billion venture fund to combat climate change

Postby choff » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:18 am

I've seen at least 3 reports from the last two centuries of the northern ice cap melting away. If you look at the 1970's 'In Search Of' with Lenard Nemoy, it shows an open Arctic waterway progressively covering over with ice in a a southerly direction. All meant to scare us about the coming ice age, backed up by Inuit claiming they've never seen it so cold before. What the real evidence demonstrates is that the Arctic Ice cover is extremely volatile over periods lasting decades.
CHoff

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Re: Bill Gates is heading a $1 billion venture fund to combat climate change

Postby NotAPhysicist » Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:12 am

Choff, as I wrote before, the Nimoy "The Ice Age is coming" thing was purely a bit of media misinterpretation.
There was no scientific consensus about a potential ice age and this wasn't a thing that was being actively pushed by the scientific community.
If anything evidence at the time was pointing the other way, though as yet that was still very much being investigated.

NotAPhysicist
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Re: Bill Gates is heading a $1 billion venture fund to combat climate change

Postby NotAPhysicist » Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:52 am


hanelyp
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Re: Bill Gates is heading a $1 billion venture fund to combat climate change

Postby hanelyp » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:08 pm

The daylight is uncomfortably bright for eyes so long in the dark.

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Re: Bill Gates is heading a $1 billion venture fund to combat climate change

Postby NotAPhysicist » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:05 pm


pbelter
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Re: Bill Gates is heading a $1 billion venture fund to combat climate change

Postby pbelter » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:17 am


hanelyp
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Re: Bill Gates is heading a $1 billion venture fund to combat climate change

Postby hanelyp » Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:46 am

The daylight is uncomfortably bright for eyes so long in the dark.


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