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new forum for politics

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:14 pm
by BenTC
Following on from There Have been Some Complaints

Betruger wrote:Maybe make a separate sex/religion/politics forum. Those three always get blood flowing and/or temper tantrums. Those inclined to debate those topics would have free reign as ever to do so, and those who aren't would have their friendly polywell-correct forum outside of that subforum.

I feel the same. I used to like the General forum for its non-polywell science posts, but lately its been a bit bland and offputting swamped by politics, economics and AGW where some people have entrenched opposing views and it degenerates into a slinging match. I know the climategate scandal is exciting, but with entrenched positions on both sides it gets a bit repetetive, boring and brings the whole tone down. I seem to correlate this change with the post challenging MSimon about political side-comments being dropped in here and there - and the community here supporting MSimon. I agree with the open policy, but now its escalated I find the noise level too high. Perhaps its better to put aside a corner soapbox dedicated to this.

A review of the last 25 active topics shows only 3 were SCIENCE, 21 were POLITICS/CLIMATE of which 15 were authored by Jccarlton or MSimon.

CLIMATE - Solar and GHG effect in vertical temperature of the atmos.
CLIMATE - Eat that GW believers!
ADMIN - There Have been Some Complaints
CLIMATE - AGW Supporters always ignore this question
CLIMATE - Denialists, skeptics, warners and alarmists...
POLITICS - Living In A Bubble
POLITICS - Liberal view of Government.
POLITICS - Conservative view of government.
POLITICS - Glenn Beck's Question And My Answer
POLITICS - The Real Domestic Terrorists
POLITICS - Welfare in action.
SCIENCE - Mystery object to whizz by Earth Wednesday
CLIMATE - Open Source Climate Models And Temperature Sets
CLIMATE - The End Logic of the global warming bureaucracy
CLIMATE - Temps Stable til 2050, Plenty of Time to Fix
CLIMATE - IPCC Scientist - Half the Warming Is Natural
POLITICS - Small Business Holding Out
POLITICS - Getting What You Pay For
SCIENCE - Two Manifolds
POLITICS - Walking in Hitler and Stalin's shoes
CLIMATE - 10 Stupid Ideas for Mucking Up The Climate
POLITICS - A perfect example of american Creativity
SCIENCE - New Elements From Old
POLITICS - Obama's choices
CLIMATE - A Climate Of Bad Code

For comparison, page 3 Nov/Oct had only 2 POLITICS posts:

SCIENCE - Gone to the moon, BRB(Destination Moon)
SCIENCE - bladeless fan
SCIENCE - Space Elevator Games with Prizes - $2Mil
SCIENCE - Energy Balance of a Dean Device Space Elevator
OTHER - Lest We Forget
SCIENCE - Researchers work to develop new Hall effect thrusters
SCIENCE - Warning: Content not suitable for Children nor all adults
CLIMATE - Belief in Global Warming officially recognized as a religion
SCIENCE - Thrust from Centripetal forces.
SCIENCE - Einstein-Cartan-Evans unified field theory
SCIENCE - Coming Soon To A Battlefield Near You
SCIENCE - Device like ‘Star Trek’ replicator is in the works
ADVERT - Innovative new company
POLITICS - The Ultimate Betrayal
SCIENCE - CIRCLES, SPHERES AND ATOMS
SCIENCE - So what kind of nuclear spaceships are Russians working on?
SCIENCE - All you rocket scientists, an asteroid problem to work on.
SCIENCE - EMdrive resurfaces (unexpectedly)
SCIENCE - Russian president backs nuclear spaceship
SCIENCE - Extra-salty sea
SCIENCE - Polywell on the Moon?
SCIENCE - Brain-machine interface for the paralysed.
SCIENCE - Liqid fuel, Redox Flow Batteries.
POLITICS - Liberal Media Greater threat than terrorism
SCIENCE - Gravity repels

A new forum "Politics - discussion of politics, religion, global warming and all other provocative topics with entrenched opposing positions" or alternatively a new forum "Other science - interesting non-polywell stuff that used to be discussed in General" might be useful in keeping the noise down. I hope its not too presumptive to run a poll, but I'm interested in what people think, so here goes...

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:28 pm
by Helius
What about the politics of science? Y'know, Thomas Kuhn type stuff? I think AGW discussions belong in General. All the other stuff should end with a hypoerlink into the "non-science aspect" discussion forum.

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:34 pm
by Betruger
I'd do option 1. Free politics/etc forum, no topical restrictions (of course same decency limits as always). Then non-polywell science news would IMO be at well-suited to General.

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:03 pm
by MSimon
My vote is that Ben start posting more science stuff.

You are spending too much time complaining Ben and not enough time working.

And your post above is proof that you have failed to meet even your own low standards.

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:04 pm
by MSimon
Betruger wrote:I'd do option 1. Free politics/etc forum, no topical restrictions (of course same decency limits as always). Then non-polywell science news would IMO be at well-suited to General.


The forums are what they are. And Joe is not inclined to change the software as it is:

a. a pain
b. loses all the old data

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:48 pm
by Betruger
He loses data when creating a new forum? I've never seen that issue before. Unless you're certain of it, I'd ask him if you don't know the answer to this specific question yet..

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:17 pm
by Skipjack
He loses data when creating a new forum? I've never seen that issue before.

Neither have I and I am a forum host as well.

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:58 pm
by MSimon
Skipjack wrote:
He loses data when creating a new forum? I've never seen that issue before.

Neither have I and I am a forum host as well.


Note I said "change the software" not "change the settings". Perhaps I didn't address your question. I meant what I said.

As to adding a new category. It has come up before. It is not likely to happen.

Re: new forum for politics

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:16 am
by djolds1
The rancor and vitriol on the politics threads does not serve the purpose of this site. I would propose an alternative board/website for politics, not another forum on talk-polywell. Spitting piss and vinegar at each other does not advance fusion technology. If the traffic on T-P goes down as a result, so be it.

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:41 am
by taniwha
What rancor and vitriol? All I've seen is quite civilized discussions, which is rather impressive considering the inflammability of the topics being discussed.

It seems to me that the only people complaining about the politics are those whose arguments never survive the first counter-argument.

It might be a good idea if a few old proverbs got resurrected. Let's start with "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:16 am
by MSimon
taniwha wrote:What rancor and vitriol? All I've seen is quite civilized discussions, which is rather impressive considering the inflammability of the topics being discussed.

It seems to me that the only people complaining about the politics are those whose arguments never survive the first counter-argument.

It might be a good idea if a few old proverbs got resurrected. Let's start with "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."


Yep. It always amuses me when newbies come here and expect a rational discussion of science and instead get a rational discussion of politics.

What is their first resort?

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. I want my daddy to fix it.

But the climate stuff is very good science. Josh does well presenting an honest case from the other side.

And just to digress to politics: If Scott Brown wins in Mass...........

Well it is a pretty good clue about the current state of politics.

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:30 am
by Betruger
MSimon wrote:As to adding a new category. It has come up before. It is not likely to happen.
Roger that..
taniwha wrote:What rancor and vitriol? All I've seen is quite civilized discussions, which is rather impressive considering the inflammability of the topics being discussed.
No, there's a few that get really near blowing a gasket in some instances. :)

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:00 pm
by MSimon
Betruger wrote:
MSimon wrote:As to adding a new category. It has come up before. It is not likely to happen.
Roger that..
taniwha wrote:What rancor and vitriol? All I've seen is quite civilized discussions, which is rather impressive considering the inflammability of the topics being discussed.
No, there's a few that get really near blowing a gasket in some instances. :)


The old hands seem to manage. It is the newbies who have a hard time.

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:08 pm
by KitemanSA
MSimon wrote: The old hands seem to manage. It is the newbies who have a hard time.
I think that was his original point, to make this forum more inviting to newbies.

:roll: :roll: Is this the emoticon for exasperation?

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:44 pm
by MSimon
KitemanSA wrote:
MSimon wrote: The old hands seem to manage. It is the newbies who have a hard time.
I think that was his original point, to make this forum more inviting to newbies.

:roll: :roll: Is this the emoticon for exasperation?


We are back full circle. I'm not sure this is a good place to teach the credulous basic arithmetic and physics.

Engineers and scientists will have no problem.

OTOH if the tone is wrong post more science stuff.