Math Markup

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BenTC
Posts: 409
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:54 am

Postby BenTC » Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:18 pm

I saw someone tried to use the [tex] bbcode. That was something I was playing with and didn't complete. I aborted since custom bbcodes are only available with phpBB ver3, whereas talk-polywell.org is hosted on phpBB ver2. The method used by ASCIMath is to surround the math with `single-back-quotes`.
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is.

BenTC
Posts: 409
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:54 am

Postby BenTC » Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:41 pm

Indrek, On the test site you mentioned:
And sqrt signs for me are not drawn properly, not pulled all the way down


I've investigated and found that MathML works best with the Scientific and Technical Information Exchange (STIX) fonts downloaded from the bottom the Firefox MathML Fonts page. Unfortunately that means for an install requirement for everyone (note, this may also be beneficial for the future when viewing other sites).

Here is the comparison...
Image

In Windows, downloadand unzip, select all the .otf files, right-click and choose Install.

Let me know what you think. I'll look around for other solutions as well.
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is.

Indrek
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Location: Estonia
Contact:

Postby Indrek » Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:47 pm

I'm running Linux. But any kind of install requirement is a bad idea. I do think upgrades are ok though, say everyone should ditch older IE-s for even security reasons.

So we have to live with slightly broken things.

BenTC wrote:Indrek, On the test site you mentioned:
And sqrt signs for me are not drawn properly, not pulled all the way down


I've investigated and found that MathML works best with the Scientific and Technical Information Exchange (STIX) fonts downloaded from the bottom the Firefox MathML Fonts page. Unfortunately that means for an install requirement for everyone (note, this may also be beneficial for the future when viewing other sites).

Here is the comparison...
Image

In Windows, downloadand unzip, select all the .otf files, right-click and choose Install.

Let me know what you think. I'll look around for other solutions as well.

Indrek
Posts: 113
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:51 pm
Location: Estonia
Contact:

Postby Indrek » Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:57 pm

No I meant
http://www1.chapman.edu/~jipsen/mathml/asciimath.html

This works purely on the javascript/html/dom level. Just including this file will get equations working. Just type "dollar latex-equation dollar".

It is very clever as it goes through the document as it loads and replaces these sequences to mathml.

So to use this one only needs to include this javascript at the forum meta headers. That's it. No need for any php/forum module changes or coding.

But really, I don't want to interfere or get too involved. So do whatever you want to and think makes sense.

BenTC wrote:
Indrek wrote:Just include the latex2mathml js in the forum headers and you're set.


I assume you mean this: http://www.maths.nottingham.ac.uk/personal
which acknowledges ACIIMath as its source. The ACIIMath Changes File indicates that the LaTeXMathML.js has been incoporated back into it.
Acknowledgement. This JavaScript program has been created by modifying Peter Jipsen's ASCIIMathML.js script. He deserves full credit for the original implementation; any bugs have probably been introduced by me.
Warning. I am not now maintaining this program. I am now officially retired, and I do not know how long this web site will continue to exist—I hope it will remain for a long time, but that may not be within my control. Alternative (and more developed) versions of LaTeXMathML will hopefully continue to be available from within Peter Jipsen's ASCIIMathML

blaisepascal
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Location: Ithaca, NY
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MathML is limited, unfortunately.

Postby blaisepascal » Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:04 pm

MathML is not supported with WebKit-based browsers like Safari or Chrome, is only supported with an add-on with IE, and apparently there are issues with Opera's support. Firefox needs special fonts installed to do it right.

Just something to keep in mind.

icarus
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Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:48 am

Postby icarus » Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:41 pm

Any idea of ETA for when these equation writing/editing features maybe available in the talk-polywell forums?

Betruger
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Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 11:54 am

Postby Betruger » Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:57 pm

MSimon, JStrout, or others are probably following this, but you might get a quicker answer by asking them directly.

BenTC
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Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:54 am

Postby BenTC » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:30 pm

As much as I'd like to push a Firefox agenda, I went looking for a bitmap solution, since that would ensure everyone sees the same thing with wide compatability. I found LatexRender which I have put up for testing at http://www.bentest.dreamhosters.com/bb. Forum password is polywell.

Note, that is not my normal webhost and the trial account may expire on the 18th April. I tracked down talk-polywell.org to be hosted with dreamhost.com, and their plan was fairly attractive (see following post) so I thought I would try it out. Testing on their system should make it easier to then implement on talk-polywell.org, so I signed on for a two-week trial, set up phpBB and installed LatexRender. Fairly straightforward. You might want to try a free trial yourself.

For anyone wanting to use LatexRender with pbpBB on DreamHost, here is what I did: (with the bold bits needing to be customised for your account)
-----------------
[1] From the DreamHost Panel, Enabled Shell Access. Used Putty application for MSWindows to SSH into the dreamhost server.
Alternatively you could unpack/edit files locally and FTP them.

[2]$ mkdir tmpinstall ; cd tmpinstall

[3]$ wget http://www.mayer.dial.pipex.com/latexrender.zip

[4]$ unzip latexrender.zip

[5]$ cp -r ~/tmpinstall/phpBB/latexrender ~/bentest.dreamhosters.com/bb/latexrender

[6]$ cd ~/bentest.dreamhosters.com/bb

[7]$ vi latexrender/phpbb_hook_2.php
Edited according to README_phpBB3.txt (although talk-polywell.org may require README_phpBB2.txt instead)
Used...
< $latexrender_path = "/home/coman/bentest.dreamhosters.com/bb/latexrender";
< $latexrender_path_http = "/bb/latexrender";

[8]vi latexrender/class.latexrender.php
Used...
< var $_image_format = "png"; //change to png if you prefer
(since gifs were pixelated)

[9]$ vi includes/bbcode.php
Edited according to README_phpBB3.txt

[10] In the phpBB Admin Control Panel, added a new bbcode tag.
As described in README_phpBB3.txt

Thats it for phpBB3. (although there is a bit more to do for phpBB2 that talk-polywell.org runs on)

Hope that helps.
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is.

Betruger
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Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 11:54 am

Postby Betruger » Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:38 am


BenTC
Posts: 409
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:54 am

Postby BenTC » Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:17 pm

They are just using latexrender on phpBB3, the install of which I describe above. I had hoped my investigation would be picked up by the admin, but wasn't any interest. With phpBB3 the install is dead easy, however talk-polywell runs on phpBB2. Latexrender on phpBB2 didn't seem too much hard, but I didn't have that as a test environment. I had signed up with DreamHost (who host talk-polywell) to match the talk-polywell environment for testing, but only phpBB3 was available. So I could only not document a proven install on phpBB2.

With a shell login on talk-polywell I could get it working, but shell logins are like giving your baby to a stranger to take across the country. The other option would be talk-polywell being upgraded to phpBB3. However there is always the chance of something going awry. The risks might outweight the benefits. On the other hand, this link indicates the phpBB2 to phpBB3 upgrade can be tested with fairly low risk, with a easy rollback path.

However the old engineering adage applies... "if it works, dn't fck wth it."
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is.

Betruger
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 11:54 am

Postby Betruger » Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:35 am

Sorry, just dropped the link without reading.

The search is somewhat broken and there's some minor thing amiss with the way the forum handles login for at least one browser (opera). So the forum ain't quite not-broke.

Still, in the admins' hands as you say. Hopefully they give the safe rollback feature a look.


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