thread for segments files and parameters for simulation runs

Discuss how polywell fusion works; share theoretical questions and answers.

Moderators: tonybarry, MSimon

happyjack27
Posts: 1438
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:27 pm

Post by happyjack27 »

coils are perfect. great work, rjp!

i call this one "Escape from Coruscant" 8)

position space video. 15cm radius. coils have a 5mm radius. probably unrealistically small. but in any case much more realistic than 0.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3HIHfpxojQ

phase space views (cycling through all of them):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxRWbjX_XVk

happyjack27
Posts: 1438
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:27 pm

Post by happyjack27 »

it just looks like a fuzzy ball -- you can't see any cusp behavior. so i made another video where i started the electrons out in the center. but still i had to turn down the plasma density, and turn up the field strength on order of magnitude to get it visible. and you so now you can see the spikes form, and there are a lot of them! (presumably 32) once the spikes form, however, there looks to be a bouncing back of a lot of electrons and then in a very short time it becomes a fuzzy ball.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xWQaJ-Qe6Y

hanelyp
Posts: 2257
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:50 pm

Post by hanelyp »

I'm thinking you won't see much if any spiking at beta=1.

ladajo
Posts: 6204
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Post by ladajo »

The containment on this does look more clear. Watching closely in high rez, it seems that the losses are much less than fewer coil versions. One question that does come to mind involves the increase in relative metal around the core and its potential impact on ions. I wonder if there is a tipping point where the <in effect> coefficient of metal density exceeds the shielding effects for ion losses, and in turn creates 'grid heating'.

In any event, I really look forward to seeing furture sims with data capture. You have done some very cool work, regardless of accuracy arguments. The visualization are tremendous. And the fact you are doing your best to seat it all in group particle interactions is well done.

happyjack27
Posts: 1438
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:27 pm

Post by happyjack27 »

thanks.

bear in mind im keeping amp turns the same between configs. so that means coil thickness would be the same and drive current (voltage) would increase linearly w/total coil length. so it really end up comparing at different drive currents. though still after adjusting for this it does look to confine better.

on the subject of grid losses, yes of ocourse thinner coils are better, but also you can reduce losses to nearly zero if the mag field is strong enough and the grid charge is weak enough. (since mag field pushes from the coils and charge pulls to it) thats only electron losses, though. and in any case doesn't include quantumn tunneling. with bigger machines though itd be eassier to start off the ions in a smaller inner radius thus reducing their chance of escape or grid loss.

regarding wb i've thought about what it should look like and it might very well be a superposition of multiple radii wb's, andthe nonsphericity of the magrid potential might cause colomb forces that make it that not all of the wb's are perfect spheres. so what you'd see is a fuzzy ball with dents whose curvature varies with radius. (as the protons show in the holiday magrid.)

happyjack27
Posts: 1438
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:27 pm

Post by happyjack27 »

x and z axis = position space. y axis = radial momentum.

i slowed the electrons down about 8x so i could increase the overall time scale 10x. first of a couple of videos (in series):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA4ooNhiZjw

video 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwWrctIuWDg

phase space views:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY0-1CGXF6U

happyjack27
Posts: 1438
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:27 pm

Post by happyjack27 »

phase space views, about an hour later:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tv6C-LqKrpA

rjaypeters
Posts: 869
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:04 pm
Location: Summerville SC, USA

Post by rjaypeters »

FWIW. Dodecahedron with pentagons, 0.2m casing diameter: Image

Code: Select all

//Dodecahedron, Pentagons on 1m radius sphere, 0.2m cases, 6mm sep.
//circumference, ideal = 2.851m, segmented = 2.665m
//+x, +y coil begins
5
0.103, 1.030, 0.0, 0.37, 0.865, 0.432
0.37, 0.865, 0.432, 0.801, 0.598, 0.267
0.801, 0.598, 0.267, 0.801, 0.598, -0.267
0.801, 0.598, -0.267, 0.37, 0.865, -0.432
0.37, 0.865, -0.432, 0.103, 1.030, 0.0
//+x, +y coil ends
//+x, -y coil begins
5
0.103, -1.03, 0.0, 0.37, -0.865, -0.432
0.37, -0.865, -0.432, 0.801, -0.598, -0.267
0.801, -0.598, -0.267, 0.801, -0.598, 0.267
0.801, -0.598, 0.267, 0.37, -0.865, 0.432
0.37, -0.865, 0.432, 0.103, -1.03, 0.0
//+x, -y coil ends
//-x, +y coil begins
5
-0.103, 1.03, 0.0, -0.37, 0.865, -0.432
-0.37, 0.865, -0.432, -0.801, 0.598, -0.267
-0.801, 0.598, -0.267, -0.801, 0.598, 0.267
-0.801, 0.598, 0.267, -0.37, 0.865, 0.432
-0.37, 0.865, 0.432, -0.103, 1.03, 0.0
//-x, +y coil ends
//-x, -y coil begins
5
-0.103, -1.03, 0.0, -0.37, -0.865, 0.432
-0.37, -0.865, 0.432, -0.801, -0.598, 0.267
-0.801, -0.598, 0.267, -0.801, -0.598, -0.267
-0.801, -0.598, -0.267, -0.37, -0.865, -0.432
-0.37, -0.865, -0.432, -0.103, -1.03, 0.0
//-x, -y coil ends
//+x, +z coil begins
5
1.03, 0.0, 0.103, 0.865, 0.432, 0.37
0.865, 0.432, 0.37, 0.598, 0.267, 0.801
0.598, 0.267, 0.801, 0.598, -0.267, 0.801
0.598, -0.267, 0.801, 0.865, -0.432, 0.37
0.865, -0.432, 0.37, 1.03, 0.0, 0.103
//+x, +z coil ends
//+x, -z coil begins
5
1.03, 0.0, -0.103, 0.865, -0.432, -0.37
0.865, -0.432, -0.37, 0.598, -0.267, -0.801
0.598, -0.267, -0.801, 0.598, 0.267, -0.801
0.598, 0.267, -0.801, 0.865, 0.432, -0.37
0.865, 0.432, -0.37, 1.03, 0.0, -0.103
//+x, -z coil ends
//-x, +z coil begins
5
-1.03, 0.0, 0.103, -0.865, -0.432, 0.37
-0.865, -0.432, 0.37, -0.598, -0.267, 0.801
-0.598, -0.267, 0.801, -0.598, 0.267, 0.801
-0.598, 0.267, 0.801, -0.865, 0.432, 0.37
-0.865, 0.432, 0.37, -1.03, 0.0, 0.103
//-x, +z coil ends
//-x, -z coil begins
5
-1.03, 0.0, -0.103, -0.865, 0.432, -0.37
-0.865, 0.432, -0.37, -0.598, 0.267, -0.801
-0.598, 0.267, -0.801, -0.598, -0.267, -0.801
-0.598, -0.267, -0.801, -0.865, -0.432, -0.37
-0.865, -0.432, -0.37, -1.03, 0.0, -0.103
//-x, -z coil ends
//+y, +z coil begins
5
0.0, 0.103, 1.03, 0.432, 0.37, 0.865
0.432, 0.37, 0.865, 0.267, 0.801, 0.598
0.267, 0.801, 0.598, -0.267, 0.801, 0.598
-0.267, 0.801, 0.598, -0.432, 0.37, 0.865
-0.432, 0.37, 0.865, 0.0, 0.103, 1.03
//+y, +z ends
//+y, -z coil begins
5
0.0, 0.103, -1.03, -0.432, 0.37, -0.865
-0.432, 0.37, -0.865, -0.267, 0.801, -0.598
-0.267, 0.801, -0.598, 0.267, 0.801, -0.598
0.267, 0.801, -0.598, 0.432, 0.37, -0.865 
0.432, 0.37, -0.865, 0.0, 0.103, -1.03
//+y, -z ends
//-y, +z coil begins
5
0.0, -0.103, 1.03, -0.432, -0.37, 0.865
-0.432, -0.37, 0.865, -0.267, -0.801, 0.598
-0.267, -0.801, 0.598, 0.267, -0.801, 0.598
0.267, -0.801, 0.598, 0.432, -0.37, 0.865
0.432, -0.37, 0.865, 0.0, -0.103, 1.03
//-y, +z ends
//-y, -z coil begins
5
0.0, -0.103, -1.03, 0.432, -0.37, -0.865
0.432, -0.37, -0.865, 0.267, -0.801, -0.598
0.267, -0.801, -0.598, -0.267, -0.801, -0.598
-0.267, -0.801, -0.598, -0.432, -0.37, -0.865
-0.432, -0.37, -0.865, 0.0, -0.103, -1.03
//-y, -z coil ends
"Aqaba! By Land!" T. E. Lawrence

R. Peters

rjaypeters
Posts: 869
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:04 pm
Location: Summerville SC, USA

Post by rjaypeters »

D Tibbets wrote:One modification to the 4 bowed grid design would be to shorten and open the curvature of the grids until they were ~ 1.5 times as long (along the curve, where they are currently twice as long) as they are wide. This may result in end 'corner' cusps having ~ the same minor diameter of the face point cusps.
Like this? Image

In the x-y plane, there is 1.261m between the coil and its opposite side (centers of conductor). At the maximum z locations, these coils are 1.261m apart.
"Aqaba! By Land!" T. E. Lawrence

R. Peters

D Tibbets
Posts: 2775
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:52 am

Post by D Tibbets »

Mmm, nice drawing, thanks. But, it looks like the corners of the top and bottom cusps are opening up to larger seperations than I anticipated. Perhaps an intermediate stage between this and the original. Perhaps 1.66 ratio for the coil dememensions lieing on the sphere. Also, modest squaring of the coils (rather than ovals) might help in my subjective mussings...

Dan Tibbets
To error is human... and I'm very human.

rjaypeters
Posts: 869
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:04 pm
Location: Summerville SC, USA

Post by rjaypeters »

Image
Coils are 0.884m apart at the top and bottom. Slightly squared, also.
"Aqaba! By Land!" T. E. Lawrence

R. Peters

D Tibbets
Posts: 2775
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:52 am

Post by D Tibbets »

Again, nice illustration. This seems to help the top and bottom cusps, at the expense of the side cusps. Where the best balance might be could only be determined by a sim.

One thing that I ruminated on was using this design as way to have most of the fusion ions exit at the top or bottom cusps. This might ease direct conversion or rocket thrust considerations. In a rocket (outside the atmosphere) one end would feed a direct conversion apparatus, while the other end provided direct fusion thrust, perhaps augmented with a working fluid for a diluted fusion product thrust.
In this case the previous illustration might be better- provided of course that confinement and recirculation was adequate.

Dan Tibbets
To error is human... and I'm very human.

rjaypeters
Posts: 869
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:04 pm
Location: Summerville SC, USA

Post by rjaypeters »

D Tibbets wrote:Again, nice illustration.
Modern software and computers really are quite wonderful. Also, thanks to happyjack27, and people like him, we sometimes have an opportunity to investigate our musings rather than just look at pretty pictures.

Edit: if you can convince happyjack27 to make another run, I'll produce the segment list, sooner rather than later, for the configuration you like.
"Aqaba! By Land!" T. E. Lawrence

R. Peters

Grurgle-the-Grey
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:46 am

Post by Grurgle-the-Grey »

Oops sorry wrong topic. :oops:
Last edited by Grurgle-the-Grey on Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

rjaypeters
Posts: 869
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:04 pm
Location: Summerville SC, USA

Post by rjaypeters »

In case anyone does investigate mis-aligned coils on a traditional WB: Image

Code: Select all

//6 coils on a 1m radius sphere, -x coil mis-aligned by 15 degrees
//-x coil mis-aligned by 15 degrees begins
32
-0.775,	-0.631,	0.000,	-0.778,	-0.619,	0.123
-0.778,	-0.619,	0.123,	-0.788,	-0.585,	0.241
-0.788,	-0.585,	0.241,	-0.803,	-0.528,	0.350
-0.803,	-0.528,	0.350,	-0.823,	-0.453,	0.446
-0.823,	-0.453,	0.446,	-0.848,	-0.360,	0.524
-0.848,	-0.360,	0.524,	-0.876,	-0.255,	0.583
-0.876,	-0.255,	0.583,	-0.907,	-0.141,	0.618
-0.907,	-0.141,	0.618,	-0.939,	-0.022,	0.631
-0.939,	-0.022,	0.631,	-0.971,	0.097,	0.618
-0.971,	0.097,	0.618,	-1.002,	0.211,	0.583
-1.002,	0.211,	0.583,	-1.030,	0.316,	0.524
-1.030,	0.316,	0.524,	-1.055,	0.409,	0.446
-1.055,	0.409,	0.446,	-1.075,	0.484,	0.350
-1.075,	0.484,	0.350,	-1.090,	0.541,	0.241
-1.090,	0.541,	0.241,	-1.100,	0.575,	0.123
-1.100,	0.575,	0.123,	-1.103,	0.587,	0.000
-1.103,	0.587,	0.000,	-1.100,	0.575,	-0.123
-1.100,	0.575,	-0.123,	-1.090,	0.541,	-0.241
-1.090,	0.541,	-0.241,	-1.075,	0.484,	-0.350
-1.075,	0.484,	-0.350,	-1.055,	0.409,	-0.446
-1.055,	0.409,	-0.446,	-1.030,	0.316,	-0.524
-1.030,	0.316,	-0.524,	-1.002,	0.211,	-0.583
-1.002,	0.211,	-0.583,	-0.971,	0.097,	-0.618
-0.971,	0.097,	-0.618,	-0.939,	-0.022,	-0.631
-0.939,	-0.022,	-0.631,	-0.907,	-0.141,	-0.618
-0.907,	-0.141,	-0.618,	-0.876,	-0.255,	-0.583
-0.876,	-0.255,	-0.583,	-0.848,	-0.360,	-0.524
-0.848,	-0.360,	-0.524,	-0.823,	-0.453,	-0.446
-0.823,	-0.453,	-0.446,	-0.803,	-0.528,	-0.350
-0.803,	-0.528,	-0.350,	-0.788,	-0.585,	-0.241
-0.788,	-0.585,	-0.241,	-0.778,	-0.619,	-0.123
-0.778,	-0.619,	-0.123,	-0.775,	-0.631,	0.000
//-x coil mis-aligned by 15 degrees ends
//-x coil mis-aligned by 10 degrees begins
32
-0.776,	-0.631,	0.000,	-0.778,	-0.619,	0.123
-0.778,	-0.619,	0.123,	-0.784,	-0.584,	0.241
-0.784,	-0.584,	0.241,	-0.794,	-0.526,	0.350
-0.794,	-0.526,	0.350,	-0.808,	-0.449,	0.446
-0.808,	-0.449,	0.446,	-0.825,	-0.355,	0.524
-0.825,	-0.355,	0.524,	-0.844,	-0.248,	0.583
-0.844,	-0.248,	0.583,	-0.865,	-0.131,	0.618
-0.865,	-0.131,	0.618,	-0.886,	-0.010,	0.631
-0.886,	-0.010,	0.631,	-0.907,	0.111,	0.618
-0.907,	0.111,	0.618,	-0.928,	0.228,	0.583
-0.928,	0.228,	0.583,	-0.947,	0.335,	0.524
-0.947,	0.335,	0.524,	-0.964,	0.429,	0.446
-0.964,	0.429,	0.446,	-0.978,	0.506,	0.350
-0.978,	0.506,	0.350,	-0.988,	0.564,	0.241
-0.988,	0.564,	0.241,	-0.994,	0.599,	0.123
-0.994,	0.599,	0.123,	-0.996,	0.611,	0.000
-0.996,	0.611,	0.000,	-0.994,	0.599,	-0.123
-0.994,	0.599,	-0.123,	-0.988,	0.564,	-0.241
-0.988,	0.564,	-0.241,	-0.978,	0.506,	-0.350
-0.978,	0.506,	-0.350,	-0.964,	0.429,	-0.446
-0.964,	0.429,	-0.446,	-0.947,	0.335,	-0.524
-0.947,	0.335,	-0.524,	-0.928,	0.228,	-0.583
-0.928,	0.228,	-0.583,	-0.907,	0.111,	-0.618
-0.907,	0.111,	-0.618,	-0.886,	-0.010,	-0.631
-0.886,	-0.010,	-0.631,	-0.865,	-0.131,	-0.618
-0.865,	-0.131,	-0.618,	-0.844,	-0.248,	-0.583
-0.844,	-0.248,	-0.583,	-0.825,	-0.355,	-0.524
-0.825,	-0.355,	-0.524,	-0.808,	-0.449,	-0.446
-0.808,	-0.449,	-0.446,	-0.794,	-0.526,	-0.350
-0.794,	-0.526,	-0.350,	-0.784,	-0.584,	-0.241
-0.784,	-0.584,	-0.241,	-0.778,	-0.619,	-0.123
-0.778,	-0.619,	-0.123,	-0.776,	-0.631,	0.000
//-x coil mis-aligned by 10 degrees ends
//-x coil mis-aligned by 5 degrees begins
32
-0.776,	-0.631,	0.000,	-0.777,	-0.619,	0.123
-0.777,	-0.619,	0.123,	-0.780,	-0.583,	0.241
-0.780,	-0.583,	0.241,	-0.785,	-0.525,	0.350
-0.785,	-0.525,	0.350,	-0.792,	-0.447,	0.446
-0.792,	-0.447,	0.446,	-0.801,	-0.352,	0.524
-0.801,	-0.352,	0.524,	-0.810,	-0.243,	0.583
-0.810,	-0.243,	0.583,	-0.820,	-0.126,	0.618
-0.820,	-0.126,	0.618,	-0.831,	-0.003,	0.631
-0.831,	-0.003,	0.631,	-0.842,	0.120,	0.618
-0.842,	0.120,	0.618,	-0.852,	0.237,	0.583
-0.852,	0.237,	0.583,	-0.861,	0.346,	0.524
-0.861,	0.346,	0.524,	-0.870,	0.441,	0.446
-0.870,	0.441,	0.446,	-0.877,	0.519,	0.350
-0.877,	0.519,	0.350,	-0.882,	0.577,	0.241
-0.882,	0.577,	0.241,	-0.885,	0.613,	0.123
-0.885,	0.613,	0.123,	-0.886,	0.625,	0.000
-0.886,	0.625,	0.000,	-0.885,	0.613,	-0.123
-0.885,	0.613,	-0.123,	-0.882,	0.577,	-0.241
-0.882,	0.577,	-0.241,	-0.877,	0.519,	-0.350
-0.877,	0.519,	-0.350,	-0.870,	0.441,	-0.446
-0.870,	0.441,	-0.446,	-0.861,	0.346,	-0.524
-0.861,	0.346,	-0.524,	-0.852,	0.237,	-0.583
-0.852,	0.237,	-0.583,	-0.842,	0.120,	-0.618
-0.842,	0.120,	-0.618,	-0.831,	-0.003,	-0.631
-0.831,	-0.003,	-0.631,	-0.820,	-0.126,	-0.618
-0.820,	-0.126,	-0.618,	-0.810,	-0.243,	-0.583
-0.810,	-0.243,	-0.583,	-0.801,	-0.352,	-0.524
-0.801,	-0.352,	-0.524,	-0.792,	-0.447,	-0.446
-0.792,	-0.447,	-0.446,	-0.785,	-0.525,	-0.350
-0.785,	-0.525,	-0.350,	-0.780,	-0.583,	-0.241
-0.780,	-0.583,	-0.241,	-0.777,	-0.619,	-0.123
-0.777,	-0.619,	-0.123,	-0.776,	-0.631,	0.000
//-x coil mis-aligned by 5 degrees ends
To my chagrin, these are closer to what happyjack27 asked for back in the day...
"Aqaba! By Land!" T. E. Lawrence

R. Peters

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