## thread for segments files and parameters for simulation runs

Discuss how polywell fusion works; share theoretical questions and answers.

Moderators: tonybarry, MSimon

happyjack27
Posts: 1438
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:27 pm
rjaypeters wrote:Inverse WB-6. Did you mean this?
yep.
How much misalignment do you want? It'll hurt to model, but for you, I'll do it.

I think I'll smoothly and incrementally model one pair of coils pushing away from each other. 5mm, 10mm, 15, etc.
awww....

not to much, not too little. i was thinking on the cm scale given a meter radius coil. though i'm talking about angular, so maybe we should be talking degrees. time to break out the old protractor! (kidding.)

seriously though... time to eyeball it. i'd say 15 degrees would give a sizable deviation without being (overly) ridiculous, just so we can clearly see what's up while still presumably having a core. and then maybe 2.5 degrees as something one would be more likely to see in practice.

those are my estimates, anyway. and i'd say better to go with the 15 first just so we can see if we're way high or way low.

rjaypeters
Posts: 869
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:04 pm
Location: Summerville SC, USA
Evacuate the building! Fusion core breach imminent!

I put the small torus in so we could see the total extent of deflection, not the actual shape I will model.
"Aqaba! By Land!" T. E. Lawrence

R. Peters

rjaypeters
Posts: 869
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:04 pm
Location: Summerville SC, USA
Request for assistance: 3-D trigonometry for simulation projects.

I need a spreadsheet that calculates the 3-D centers of coils where the inputs are:

center of torus in x, y, z coordinates, number of increments and radius of coil.

I can do this, but I'm busy with other projects (see above). My models make it easy to find the center of the torus and radius. I have MS Excel 2007 (I know, but my spouse wanted it for work).

Thanks.
"Aqaba! By Land!" T. E. Lawrence

R. Peters

happyjack27
Posts: 1438
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:27 pm
rj, i've already got a wb-6 config file. 32-gon coil approximation with adjustable coil separation.

video of a sim of the electron core, 1m coil radius, about 12cm coil separation:

rjaypeters
Posts: 869
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:04 pm
Location: Summerville SC, USA
yes, I'm thinking about the more complex polyhedra I've modeled and don't want to manually pointilize. We get to them eventually at this pace.
"Aqaba! By Land!" T. E. Lawrence

R. Peters

happyjack27
Posts: 1438
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:27 pm
k. i should note that with the addition of point charges capable of modeling a space charge in the range of 10^-7 coloumbs, according to

http://www.mare.ee/indrek/ephi/pef2/
http://www.mare.ee/indrek/ephi/pef8/

and

http://fds.oup.com/www.oup.co.uk/pdf/0-19-856264-0.pdf ( pg. 18 )

on a 0.15m wb-6, that brings the simulated well depth well within the range of peek DT fusion energies, and about 2 orders of magnitude short of peek pb11 fusion energies.

assuming, that is, that i have my scales correct.

something to whet the appetite...

happyjack27
Posts: 1438
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:27 pm
you guys are going to LOVE this one (uploading now). i had to go all ion because at ion time scales the electrons are just background noise. so it's using only my point charges for the anode which i shall now refer to as "super electrons". they are colored deep red in the video. easy to see even w/all the ions.

and for my next trick...

so just now i got this idea: why not model at BOTH timescales SIMULTANEOUSLY? that is, the ions update their position and velocity with one dt, while the electrons use a different (much smaller) one. the different particles types will still be able to "see" each other, including their actual velocities.

that way the electron wiffleball will be there in near perfect geometry, complete not only with e-field but with b-field as well, while reacting in real time to the changing b and e fields of the ions (and vice-versa)!

genius.

i have another trick up my sleeve, too. in due time thou. need to take a break for the holiday. anyway, enjoy the video. (about an hour to go)

krenshala
Posts: 914
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:20 pm
Location: Austin, TX, NorAm, Sol III
happyjack27 wrote:i don't mean the potential at a point charge. just at a point in space where a point charge could be. the point is (no pun intended) i need to move a charged particle through an electric field completely created by coloumb forces (scattered point and line charges). and i need it to stop on a dime.

i have a straight uphill path w/equal slope on each side directly to the dime, and the field strength at the dime is zero. so provided i hit it hard enough and in the exact right direction it will roll over the dime no matter how hard i hit it. now how hard do i have to hit it to stop on it?

tiger woods would know.

as far as the magrid charge is concerned i figure i'm missing a parameter like resistance or capacitance, and from there i could calculate it if i knew the formula.
I don't know if you've solved this one or not, but a nice easily implemented solution is to drop a particle at the "top" of your "hill" and see how fast it is moving when it gets to the point you want to introduce it. Then just change the direction of that vector and it should go up the hill and stop.

rjaypeters
Posts: 869
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:04 pm
Location: Summerville SC, USA
This: Plus that: Equals:

That:

Code: Select all

``````//Four of eight octahedron, Triangular coils mapped onto sphere, 3m diameter
//Second set
//-x, +y, +z coil
24
-0.179, 0.179, 1.580, -0.123, 0.264, 1.573
-0.123, 0.264, 1.573, -0.103, 0.363, 1.555
-0.103, 0.363, 1.555, -0.103, 0.611, 1.475
-0.103, 0.611, 1.475, -0.103, 1.129, 1.129
-0.103, 1.129, 1.129, -0.103, 1.475, 0.611
-0.103, 1.475, 0.611, -0.103, 1.555, 0.363
-0.103, 1.555, 0.363, -0.103, 1.575, 0.264
-0.103, 1.575, 0.264, -0.179, 1.580, 0.179
-0.179, 1.580, 0.179, -0.264, 1.573, 0.123
-0.264, 1.573, 0.123, -0.363, 1.555, 0.103
-0.363, 1.555, 0.103, -0.611, 1.475, 0.103
-0.611, 1.475, 0.103, -1.129, 1.129, 0.103
-1.129, 1.129, 0.103, -1.475, 0.611, 0.103
-1.475, 0.611, 0.103, -1.555, 0.363, 0.103
-1.555, 0.363, 0.103, -1.573, 0.264, 0.123
-1.573, 0.264, 0.123, -1.580, 0.179, 0.179
-1.580, 0.179, 0.179, -1.573, 0.123, 0.264
-1.573, 0.123, 0.264, -1.555, 0.103, 0.363
-1.555, 0.103, 0.363, -1.475, 0.103, 0.611
-1.475, 0.103, 0.611, -1.129, 0.103, 1.129
-1.129, 0.103, 1.129, -0.611, 0.103, 1.475
-0.611, 0.103, 1.475, -0.363, 0.103, 1.555
-0.363, 0.103, 1.555, -0.264, 0.123, 1.573
-0.264, 0.123, 1.573, -0.179, 0.179, 1.580
//+x, -y, +z coil
24
0.179, -0.179, 1.580, 0.123, -0.264, 1.573
0.123, -0.264, 1.573, 0.103, -0.363, 1.555
0.103, -0.363, 1.555, 0.103, -0.611, 1.475
0.103, -0.611, 1.475, 0.103, -1.129, 1.129
0.103, -1.129, 1.129, 0.103, -1.475, 0.611
0.103, -1.475, 0.611, 0.103, -1.555, 0.363
0.103, -1.555, 0.363, 0.123, -1.573, 0.264
0.123, -1.573, 0.264, 0.179, -1.580, 0.179
0.179, -1.580, 0.179, 0.264, -1.573, 0.123
0.264, -1.573, 0.123, 0.363, -1.555, 0.103
0.363, -1.555, 0.103, 0.611, -1.475, 0.103
0.611, -1.475, 0.103, 1.129, -1.129, 0.103
1.129, -1.129, 0.103, 1.475, -0.611, 0.103
1.475, -0.611, 0.103, 1.555, -0.363, 0.103
1.555, -0.363, 0.103, 1.573, -0.264, 0.123
1.573, -0.264, 0.123, 1.580, -0.179, 0.179
1.580, -0.179, 0.179, 1.573, -0.123, 0.264
1.573, -0.123, 0.264, 1.555, -0.103, 0.363
1.555, -0.103, 0.363, 1.475, -0.103, 0.611
1.475, -0.103, 0.611, 1.129, -0.103, 1.129
1.129, -0.103, 1.129, 0.611, -0.103, 1.475
0.611, -0.103, 1.475, 0.363, -0.103, 1.555
0.363, -0.103, 1.555, 0.264, -0.123, 1.573
0.264, -0.123, 1.573, 0.179, -0.179, 1.580
//+x, +y, -z coil
24
0.179, 0.179, -1.580, 0.123, 0.264, -1.573
0.123, 0.264, -1.573, 0.103, 0.363, -1.555
0.103, 0.363, -1.555, 0.103, 0.611, -1.475
0.103, 0.611, -1.475, 0.103, 1.129, -1.129
0.103, 1.129, -1.129, 0.103, 1.475, -0.611
0.103, 1.475, -0.611, 0.103, 1.555, -0.363
0.103, 1.555, -0.363, 0.103, 1.573, -0.264
0.103, 1.573, -0.264, 0.179, 1.580, -0.179
0.179, 1.580, -0.179, 0.264, 1.573, -0.123
0.264, 1.573, -0.123, 0.363, 1.555, -0.103
0.363, 1.555, -0.103, 0.611, 1.475, -0.103
0.611, 1.475, -0.103, 1.129, 1.129, -0.103
1.129, 1.129, -0.103, 1.475, 0.611, -0.103
1.475, 0.611, -0.103, 1.555, 0.363, -0.103
1.555, 0.363, -0.103, 1.573, 0.264, -0.123
1.573, 0.264, -0.123, 1.580, 0.179, -0.179
1.580, 0.179, -0.179, 1.573, 0.123, -0.264
1.573, 0.123, -0.264, 1.555, 0.103, -0.363
1.555, 0.103, -0.363, 1.475, 0.103, -0.611
1.475, 0.103, -0.611, 1.129, 0.103, -1.129
1.129, 0.103, -1.129, 0.611, 0.103, -1.475
0.611, 0.103, -1.475, 0.363, 0.103, -1.555
0.363, 0.103, -1.555, 0.264, 0.123, -1.573
0.264, 0.123, -1.573, 0.179, 0.179, -1.580
//-x, -y, -z coil
24
-0.179, -0.179, -1.580, -0.123, -0.264, -1.573
-0.123, -0.264, -1.573, -0.103, -0.363, -1.555
-0.103, -0.363, -1.555, -0.103, -0.611, -1.475
-0.103, -0.611, -1.475, -0.103, -1.129, -1.129
-0.103, -1.129, -1.129, -0.103, -1.475, -0.611
-0.103, -1.475, -0.611, -0.103, -1.555, -0.363
-0.103, -1.555, -0.363, -0.123, -1.573, -0.264
-0.123, -1.573, -0.264, -0.179, -1.580, -0.179
-0.179, -1.580, -0.179, -0.264, -1.573, -0.123
-0.264, -1.573, -0.123, -0.363, -1.555, -0.103
-0.363, -1.555, -0.103, -0.611, -1.475, -0.103
-0.611, -1.475, -0.103, -1.129, -1.129, -0.103
-1.129, -1.129, -0.103, -1.475, -0.611, -0.103
-1.475, -0.611, -0.103, -1.555, -0.363, -0.103
-1.555, -0.363, -0.103, -1.573, -0.264, -0.123
-1.573, -0.264, -0.123, -1.580, -0.179, -0.179
-1.580, -0.179, -0.179, -1.573, -0.123, -0.264
-1.573, -0.123, -0.264, -1.555, -0.103, -0.363
-1.555, -0.103, -0.363, -1.475, -0.103, -0.611
-1.475, -0.103, -0.611, -1.129, -0.103, -1.129
-1.129, -0.103, -1.129, -0.611, -0.103, -1.475
-0.611, -0.103, -1.475, -0.363, -0.103, -1.555
-0.363, -0.103, -1.555, -0.264, -0.123, -1.573
-0.264, -0.123, -1.573, -0.179, -0.179, -1.580``````
"Aqaba! By Land!" T. E. Lawrence

R. Peters

happyjack27
Posts: 1438
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:27 pm
video, ions only. anode simulated w/"super electrons". notice something new?

it's strange i'm getting a different mode of behavior if i just blow electrons in there. not getting a tiny core like the others. maybe i've set parameters too far off? there seems to be a few different dynamical modes for this thing.

hanelyp
Posts: 2257
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:50 pm
happyjack, would it be much trouble to generate simulations with a small number of ions highlighted a different color we can visually track?

happyjack27
Posts: 1438
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:27 pm
yeah, i've noticed they're hard to track. didn't think of using a different color, thou. that would be pretty simple actually. i'll do that. i'll make it green because that's most distinct from everything else.

regarding wiffleball formation. i'm running an all electron run just starting the electrons anywhere. e.g. as if they were formed through some blind ionization process. over time there's a central ball of non-moving electrons that gets progressively fuller. so i suppose that does work, but it's very inelegant and inefficient. billions of electrons leak out for maybe every few that stick in. i'm letting it run overnight to see what i get. i suppose on real time scales that's be like a microsecond.

besides that i pulled back the current a little bit to give it more space to form. i suppose that might be what you want to do in real life - start with a low field strength just to get electrons in there, then slower push up the field strength to squeeze them into a denser core. anycase i'll see how it looks in the morning.

great idea on the color thing.

rjaypeters
Posts: 869
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:04 pm
Location: Summerville SC, USA
happyjack27 wrote:...notice something new?
Naw... not a thing... did you change your hair? Grow a mustache?

Seriously, the rings look great and help a lot with seeing what's going on.
"Aqaba! By Land!" T. E. Lawrence

R. Peters

rjaypeters
Posts: 869
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:04 pm
Location: Summerville SC, USA
15 deg. deformed coils:

Casing separation = 0.25m

Coil center separation = 0.45m
"Aqaba! By Land!" T. E. Lawrence

R. Peters

happyjack27
Posts: 1438
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:27 pm
this is all-electron formation of the core, using what i call the "brute-force" apporach, after running overnight:

all those electrons scattered outside the core is how it looks when you start off, after you turn on the fields. so you can see there's some containment even w/out the core, but it's pretty crappy. through chance some electrons find their way to the core (or start out there), and if they're not traveling too fast, well, as "said the spider to the fly", "come into my parlor".

there seems to be two concentric spheres that form. the inner one being much denser. though i wonder if maybe that's just a quirk in my pseudorandom number generator. i'm using a slightly modified "KISS" algorithm for that, normalizing it to unit length, then stretching that by the square root of a random number between 0 and 1 (so it's more evenly distributed by volume), then multiplying that by the desired bounding radius (in this case the magrid radius).

anycase it seems one could save a lot of trouble - one could increase the effective electron lifetime orders of magnitude - if one aimed the e-guns just right and sent them off with just the right velocity to stop in the center. the main difficulty as i see it is getting through the b-field. it's like throwing a dart through the eye of a tornado. that's why i want to figure out how to caclulate the initial velocity i should send them off in that case. so i can experiment to find how sensitive it is to accuracy at different field strengths. but lacking that i think i'm just going to start electrons off in the center.

so here's the approach i'm going to take with modeling a magrid:
1. model just electrons, starting them off in the center
2. hopefully then i can do the same with each electron representing millions, so i can have a potential well on the order of 10^-7 coloumbs.
3. so i'm going to try to mod the code so i can start off just electrons and then add in ions. i will run them both at different timescales simultaneously.

and some ions will be green for better tracking.

oh, and i've noticed from that last ion video:
1.) not a lot of spatial separation between protons and b11. seem to just mix together, though i presume the protons are going about twice as fast, given their higher charge-to-mass ratio, and thus proportionally higher velocity per unit KE. anyways surprised i didnt see spatial separation.
2.) very clear ion wiffleball formation. fairly close to the center, too. which is good for containment, i suppose, but it means: the voltage on the potential well should really be measured from wiffleball to wiffleball, NOT from electron wifflebal to grid. but if the ions are really packing themselves in at that level, then perhaps that actually turns out to be a higher voltage?