Widom Larsen (WL-) Theory, LENR, CF (Rossi, etc)

[bhl]

My dumb question is, what makes it that a hard gamma always accompanies a neutron absorbtion? Where does this statement come from?

My question is could the energy be from neutron emission?
Is this paper relevant?

Neutron Emissions in Ni-H systems, 1999

[bhl]

Imagine a philanthropist came on this list and gave everyone a chance to be the first to replicate all or part of the Rossi claims. If you succeed, he'll give you or a charity a million dollars. If you mock him, tell him he's an idiot, or use the word 'scam' in your reply, you get nothing.

What experiments would you start with to figure out the Rossi device?

I will start with my plan: (I'm a programmer, not a chemist, so bare with me... that's why I'm asking the you all.)

Goal: Create exothermic reaction of Ni/H without any catalyst, like the http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/01/ ... piantelli/ Piantelli experiment that overheated.

Ingredients: Over the counter Ni Nanoparticles $4/g, H gas, N2 gas,

Step 1: Put Ni powder in a container of N2 and bake at 500C for a few hours.

Step 2. Put degassed Ni in stainless vessel, add Hydrogen under pressure, increase heat to 300C or higher.

Step 3. Log heat, power in, and (if able) radiation. Watch for hockey stick rise in temperature, exploding apparatus, etc.

Document results and repeat with varying parameters until done.

Cost, $1000. ROI, $999,999 + fame and fortune

Variations: Use some type of cathode (thanks Axil) and electric current. Add catalyst ingredients.

Lets assume its possible, the E-cat is a trillion dollar discovery, and a million dollars is chump change for anyone who wants an advance working model.

[tomclarke]

Imagine a philanthropist came on this list and gave everyone a chance to be the first to replicate all or part of the Rossi claims. If you succeed, he'll give you or a charity a million dollars. If you mock him, tell him he's an idiot, or use the word 'scam' in your reply, you get nothing.

What experiments would you start with to figure out the Rossi device?

I will start with my plan: (I'm a programmer, not a chemist, so bare with me... that's why I'm asking the you all.)

Goal: Create exothermic reaction of Ni/H without any catalyst, like the http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/01/ ... piantelli/ Piantelli experiment that overheated.

Ingredients: Over the counter Ni Nanoparticles $4/g, H gas, N2 gas,

Step 1: Put Ni powder in a container of N2 and bake at 500C for a few hours.

Step 2. Put degassed Ni in stainless vessel, add Hydrogen under pressure, increase heat to 300C or higher.

Step 3. Log heat, power in, and (if able) radiation. Watch for hockey stick rise in temperature, exploding apparatus, etc.

Document results and repeat with varying parameters until done.

Cost, $1000. ROI, $999,999 + fame and fortune

Variations: Use some type of cathode (thanks Axil) and electric current. Add catalyst ingredients.

Lets assume its possible, the E-cat is a trillion dollar discovery, and a million dollars is chump change for anyone who wants an advance working model.

Hydrogen under pressure heated to 300C + in flakey home-brew apparatus?

Any leak and it will go bang.

My understanding is that Piantelli never had very convincing heat production? In which case measuring this will require careful calorimetry.

There are some things that can be done to extract more information from the experiment:

(1) run with H2 & D2 - if nuclear there should be some difference in results. If not nuclear there still could be some differnece, due to differential reaction ates, but less likely.

(2) Charge reactor with H2 (use a 50cc H2 container made of SS) and disconnect H2 source. Wrap reactor in temp sensor, heating element, & thin H2O cooling tube (we want heat loss from tube +H20 conduction to be small). Wrap again in very good insulation. Pump H2O through apparatus under electromic control to keep temp constant.


(3) Measure (carefully) heating element current & voltage - use DC. Measure H2O outlet & inlet temp - carefully, away from reactor. Log all readings every 10s.

(4) ensure heater & cooler wrap reactor in two spirals with enough separation that there is negligible thermal contact betwen heater & cooler..

(5) Calibrate setup measuring outlet/inlet temp with no heat generated, thermal mass, heat loss (work as necesary to get this v low), heat extraction from cooler at given flow rate, temperature, etc. Do this using Helium under pressure & the same de-gassed Ni.

(6) Track pressure in vessel throughout experiment. If it gets above spec for reactor, or if temp gets above spec, leave the room.

All this stuff costs little but takes a long time to work out. The rule should be: measure, don't assume. Quantify all possible errors.


(7) Have (EDIT: high energy gamma) source behind expt, check for absorption. (This is tricky to do safely!). Check for gamma output. (Alphas, betas will not escape reator).

Best wishes, Tom

[MSimon]

What experiments would you start with to figure out the Rossi device?

I'd see how much fun I could have with the money.

IMO hookers and champagne would be a better investment. Because in two years Rossi will be where EEStor is today.

Now if some one wanted to pay me to do the experiment? That is a different story. But spend my own money? Why? All I have to do is wait.

[Giorgio]

Cost, $1000. ROI, $999,999 + fame and fortune

Math wise should be: cost $1000. ROI, $999,000.

By the way, in Italian "fame" means hunger and I am afraid that's all what one will reach if he intends to replicate Rossi device without knowing the secret catalyst

[MSimon]

(7) Have fast neutron source behind expt, check for absorption. (This is tricky to do safely!).

One of those fusors in a tube jobs might be a good source.

[Ivy Matt]

Imagine a philanthropist came on this list and gave everyone a chance to be the first to replicate all or part of the Rossi claims. If you succeed, he'll give you or a charity a million dollars. If you mock him, tell him he's an idiot, or use the word 'scam' in your reply, you get nothing.

What experiments would you start with to figure out the Rossi device?

I'd try throwing darts at an invisible dartboard.

Wait, does that count as mocking?

Document results and repeat with varying parameters until done.

Well, that's the real trick, isn't it? I think that's quite a do until loop you've got there, and I don't think Rossi would disagree with me there.

[tomclarke]

Imagine a philanthropist came on this list and gave everyone a chance to be the first to replicate all or part of the Rossi claims. If you succeed, he'll give you or a charity a million dollars. If you mock him, tell him he's an idiot, or use the word 'scam' in your reply, you get nothing.

What experiments would you start with to figure out the Rossi device?

I'd try throwing darts at an invisible dartboard.

Wait, does that count as mocking?

Document results and repeat with varying parameters until done.

Well, that's the real trick, isn't it? I think that's quite a do until loop you've got there, and I don't think Rossi would disagree with me there.

Rosi has not yet, going by demos, bothered to do the first stuff - even once!

[D Tibbets]

Imagine a philanthropist came on this list and gave everyone a chance to be the first to replicate all or part of the Rossi claims. If you succeed, he'll give you or a charity a million dollars. If you mock him, tell him he's an idiot, or use the word 'scam' in your reply, you get nothing.

What experiments would you start with to figure out the Rossi device?

I will start with my plan: (I'm a programmer, not a chemist, so bare with me... that's why I'm asking the you all.)

Goal: Create exothermic reaction of Ni/H without any catalyst, like the http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/01/ ... piantelli/ Piantelli experiment that overheated.

Ingredients: Over the counter Ni Nanoparticles $4/g, H gas, N2 gas,

Step 1: Put Ni powder in a container of N2 and bake at 500C for a few hours.

Step 2. Put degassed Ni in stainless vessel, add Hydrogen under pressure, increase heat to 300C or higher.

Step 3. Log heat, power in, and (if able) radiation. Watch for hockey stick rise in temperature, exploding apparatus, etc.

Document results and repeat with varying parameters until done.

Cost, $1000. ROI, $999,999 + fame and fortune

Variations: Use some type of cathode (thanks Axil) and electric current. Add catalyst ingredients.

Lets assume its possible, the E-cat is a trillion dollar discovery, and a million dollars is chump change for anyone who wants an advance working model.

My belief in this device is not great. I would not put up any of my money to try to replicate it.

But, if someone offered me a a million dollars in order to pursue this project, I would hesitate not at all!

I would be even more enthusiatic if someone did this in the context of the Polywell, or even DPF.

The problem with your plan is that it would be great if it worked, but I presume many LENR experimenters have already approximated this setup without any yurekas!
And it is very difficult to prove a negative. Without Rossi revealing his ' "secret catalyst" or allowing close inspection of his setup and methods there is always wiggle room.

Dan Tibbets

[Ivy Matt]

Rosi has not yet, going by demos, bothered to do the first stuff - even once!

Documented his results? Not publicly, but I hope he'd be sensible enough not to claim to be a sort of modern-day Thomas Edison and say he has no use for keeping records of his experiments, even if only for his own benefit.

[bhl]

Any leak and it will go bang.

Thanks Tom.

It does seem like a prototype could be made with off the shelf stainless pipe. Besides, Rossi's device appears to start producing heat at around 60C. (Which I guess is why he can have the 300w heating element is on the outside of the device.)

According to Rossi, D2 won't work.

How about just heating .11 g H2 and 50 g Ni for several days and do a test for copper? (Ideas for those without a spectrometers?)

- Brad

[rcain]

How about just heating .11 g H2 and 50 g Ni for several days
and do a test for copper?

good idea.

(Ideas for those without a spectrometers?)

'get one', 'make one',....

[rcain]

i haven't looked through it yet, but i've just opened up: http://www.newenergytimes.com/v2/librar ... ations.pdf

according to

http://www.newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/WL/ ... html#miley

"I've taken a brief look at it so far," Miley said, "and from a first look, this theory agrees with the distinctive multipeak reaction product data from my experiments amazingly well. ...

any views?

[rjaypeters]

I'd see how much fun I could have with the money.

IMO hookers and champagne would be a better investment.

What would the First Mate have to say about that?

[Giorgio]

"I've taken a brief look at it so far," Miley said, "and from a first look, this theory agrees with the distinctive multipeak reaction product data from my experiments amazingly well. ...

any views?

I really find it hard to believe that there are mechanisms in nature as the one proposed by W&L and that we didn't see it till date.

I would like before for them to verify the existence of these ultra low momentum neutrons and the ability of the SSP to capture the high energetic gamma.