Could a paramagnetic material exist that would be more attracted to a strong magnet than a strong electrostatic field? Say platinum foil (or something more paramagnetic) coated the multi tesla magnet. As my wishful thinking goes, the atoms that are dislodged and scattered at high velocity are snapped back by the extremely high magnetic field of the coils and get stuck to the surface like flys on fly paper. There would then be no net errosion of the coil surfaces and the interior would only have to cope with the helium ash that bounced back into the well.
There was the perfect thread for posting this message to but when I tried to reply it brought me back to the main page.
crazy idea for sputtering
Re: crazy idea for sputtering
Give me a link for the page. I'll see if it is fixable.ohiovr wrote:Could a paramagnetic material exist that would be more attracted to a strong magnet than a strong electrostatic field? Say platinum foil (or something more paramagnetic) coated the multi tesla magnet. As my wishful thinking goes, the atoms that are dislodged and scattered at high velocity are snapped back by the extremely high magnetic field of the coils and get stuck to the surface like flys on fly paper. There would then be no net errosion of the coil surfaces and the interior would only have to cope with the helium ash that bounced back into the well.
There was the perfect thread for posting this message to but when I tried to reply it brought me back to the main page.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
Re: crazy idea for sputtering
even if your unobtanium shield worked in that way, you'd still be destroying its internal structure, so it would just fall apart after a while. it would no longer be 'a structure' but just a cloud of dust!ohiovr wrote:Could a paramagnetic material exist that would be more attracted to a strong magnet than a strong electrostatic field? Say platinum foil (or something more paramagnetic) coated the multi tesla magnet. As my wishful thinking goes, the atoms that are dislodged and scattered at high velocity are snapped back by the extremely high magnetic field of the coils and get stuck to the surface like flys on fly paper. There would then be no net errosion of the coil surfaces and the interior would only have to cope with the helium ash that bounced back into the well.
There was the perfect thread for posting this message to but when I tried to reply it brought me back to the main page.
Further, these fast alphas will never 'bounce back', they will become embedded in the shield and will embrittle it.
well as long as the magnet were on the dust would stick to it. Turn the magnet off and then you'd have to get a broom.
Anyway its probably impossible to find a material with a paramagnetic quality that could compete with electrostatic forces.
How would ITER or JET deal with sputtering from those multi MeV neutrons and alpha particles? Does the interior get ground to dust like what we fear with a hopefully some day functioning polywell? Similar problem yes?
Anyway its probably impossible to find a material with a paramagnetic quality that could compete with electrostatic forces.
How would ITER or JET deal with sputtering from those multi MeV neutrons and alpha particles? Does the interior get ground to dust like what we fear with a hopefully some day functioning polywell? Similar problem yes?
I did a test post and then deleted it. Worked fine.ohiovr wrote:viewtopic.php?t=971
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
Yes.ohiovr wrote:How would ITER or JET deal with sputtering from those multi MeV neutrons and alpha particles? Does the interior get ground to dust like what we fear with a hopefully some day functioning polywell? Similar problem yes?
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
I don't think so. The reaction vessels are rated to 3 displacements-per-atom which results in known reductions in mechanical properties of the structural materials. A neutron flux interacts with matter much less than to ions (ions in a magnetic confinement scheme do not reach the vessel walls with any significant flux) so there is not such a significant sputtering. Very little in fact, if the materials are chosen well. The biggest issue facing JET's carbon fibre composite plasma-facing tiles is the ease with which neutral tritium can diffuse into it and stay there. For a full-on power producing device, hydrogen/helium embrittlement will harm the chamber structure as it would in the scheme just speculated on here.MSimon wrote:Yes.ohiovr wrote:How would ITER or JET deal with sputtering from those multi MeV neutrons and alpha particles? Does the interior get ground to dust like what we fear with a hopefully some day functioning polywell? Similar problem yes?
Chris,chrismb wrote:I don't think so. The reaction vessels are rated to 3 displacements-per-atom which results in known reductions in mechanical properties of the structural materials. A neutron flux interacts with matter much less than to ions (ions in a magnetic confinement scheme do not reach the vessel walls with any significant flux) so there is not such a significant sputtering. Very little in fact, if the materials are chosen well. The biggest issue facing JET's carbon fibre composite plasma-facing tiles is the ease with which neutral tritium can diffuse into it and stay there. For a full-on power producing device, hydrogen/helium embrittlement will harm the chamber structure as it would in the scheme just speculated on here.MSimon wrote:Yes.ohiovr wrote:How would ITER or JET deal with sputtering from those multi MeV neutrons and alpha particles? Does the interior get ground to dust like what we fear with a hopefully some day functioning polywell? Similar problem yes?
My studies of ITER inform me that dust generation is a significant problem. If it has been solved I am unaware of it. In any case we have proposed solutions for a pB11 reactor. Coat the grids with B11.
Embrittlement can be dealt with in the current design: the outer structure of the grid is not load bearing. For the reactor vessel you do what fission nukes do: make the walls thicker.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
Knowing the problem is half way to knowing the solution (so I am lead to believe). Personally, my own experience of maximum self-improvement of my own projects and ideas is when I am challenged to the hilt and have to defend them. It can help one clarify some initially very shakey propositions. We all contribute in our own ways, but I understand your sentiment though, so I'll set the alarm clock for 2011 and will come see the status of things then. Maybe then there will be enough to begin to build on and if so I'll pull my sleeves up and get stuck in.MSimon wrote:Chris,
I'm going to assume you are a reasonably good engineer. How about acting like one. If you see a problem how about proposing a solution?
best regards,
Chris MB.
That might work for the first second before neutral ions start piling up. For each gram of spent fuel almost 2000 grams will get sputtered into the reaction chamber. Eventually they'll choke out the reaction. Taken to absurdities the near vacuum vessel will be pushing more than an atmosphere in no time. Now if 3 alpha particles just sputtered a single boron atom then yea that would be perfect. But 30,000 boron atoms and yea that's a big problem.Coat the grids with B11.
I presume the vessel couldn't be periodically flushed of all ions and still be able to net energy.. the losses would be tremendous. Ah what is the answer? Is there an answer?
This is a deal breaker some thing has to be thought up. Unless there is so much doubt that net power is even possible. But why dream up how to design ideal reactors when this road block stands in the way? This MUST be solved else all other considerations are academic.
There is always D-D to start - until the pB11 difficulties can be worked out.ohiovr wrote:That might work for the first second before neutral ions start piling up. For each gram of spent fuel almost 2000 grams will get sputtered into the reaction chamber. Eventually they'll choke out the reaction. Taken to absurdities the near vacuum vessel will be pushing more than an atmosphere in no time. Now if 3 alpha particles just sputtered a single boron atom then yea that would be perfect. But 30,000 boron atoms and yea that's a big problem.Coat the grids with B11.
I presume the vessel couldn't be periodically flushed of all ions and still be able to net energy.. the losses would be tremendous. Ah what is the answer? Is there an answer?
This is a deal breaker some thing has to be thought up. Unless there is so much doubt that net power is even possible. But why dream up how to design ideal reactors when this road block stands in the way? This MUST be solved else all other considerations are academic.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
R. Nebel has revieled in past posts that nuclear ash can probably be selectively removed with tuned microwaves- heats selected ions at resonant frequencies.
Alpha particle sputtering may be much less of a problem based on R. Nebal's recient revelation that the alpha particles leave mostly through the cusps. This might also simplify harvesting energy with decellerating grids, and might (?) allow otimazations of the vacuum pumping system. ie further concentrating/ the alpha particles ( assuming they are leaving the cusps in beams and/or sheets) as you are decellerating them for power production.
Dan Tibbets
Alpha particle sputtering may be much less of a problem based on R. Nebal's recient revelation that the alpha particles leave mostly through the cusps. This might also simplify harvesting energy with decellerating grids, and might (?) allow otimazations of the vacuum pumping system. ie further concentrating/ the alpha particles ( assuming they are leaving the cusps in beams and/or sheets) as you are decellerating them for power production.
Dan Tibbets
To error is human... and I'm very human.
What do you mean by mostly leaves though the cusps? The magrid casts at least a 10% shadow on the released high energy particles. Sure that means that 90% of the particles don't touch the magrid. But the 10% that do cause all kinds of problems. Or do you mean that the magrid's field is sufficient enough to steer the alpha particles out of the way so they don't hit it? I would think that even .1% of the output of the reactor blasting away at the magrid will cause significant problems. I hope I'm wrong about that.
If I recall correctly (and I'm a bit foggy on this point): the pre fusion boron particles will have an energy of about 123 KeV and the post fusion/fission alpha particles each have an average energy of 2.9 MeV for a gain of about 23.6 times. And looking at the velocity of the particles: 11,800 kilometers per second for the average alpha particle and 735 kilometers per second for the pre fusion boron nucleus.. a gain in speed of 16 times. From this could I assume that a magrid 24 times more powerful could be able to contain the very high energy alpha particles? Then if the particles are contained then how do we get the energy and the ash out of the system (obviously a microwave would be ineffective if my absurd conclusions are correct? A 10 tesla bitter electromagnet or superconducting magnet would be 100 times more powerful than wb-6. Ah my figuring must be foolish.. How could just 10 teslas be enough to contain particles with mulit mega-electron volt energies?
If I recall correctly (and I'm a bit foggy on this point): the pre fusion boron particles will have an energy of about 123 KeV and the post fusion/fission alpha particles each have an average energy of 2.9 MeV for a gain of about 23.6 times. And looking at the velocity of the particles: 11,800 kilometers per second for the average alpha particle and 735 kilometers per second for the pre fusion boron nucleus.. a gain in speed of 16 times. From this could I assume that a magrid 24 times more powerful could be able to contain the very high energy alpha particles? Then if the particles are contained then how do we get the energy and the ash out of the system (obviously a microwave would be ineffective if my absurd conclusions are correct? A 10 tesla bitter electromagnet or superconducting magnet would be 100 times more powerful than wb-6. Ah my figuring must be foolish.. How could just 10 teslas be enough to contain particles with mulit mega-electron volt energies?