Do Bussard Fusion Reactors fit the construction model of manufactured homes? Manufactured homes are delivered in a few truck loads (single wide, double wide, triple wide) then assembled on site. If BFRs fit that model, we could convert the USA to fusion electric in just a few years. Could BFR's be inventoried and sold from the "show room" floor? How big would the largest piece be?
As a delivery model, consider that FEMA delivered at least 250 manufactured homes into eastern Iowa in just a few days, little more than a month after the floods. Brought them up from the south somewhere... Georgia maybe. Those are 14 feet wide, probably 11 feet tall and quite long. And there was no "slow" about it, (it was an emergency after all) they were dragging those homes down the freeway at 50 to 60 mph, then they set them up on prepared pads in existing trailer parks.
Converting to fusion would go pretty fast if it was, "Well, BFR #438 is ready to ship, deliver it to the next prepared site."
Packaging the BFR as a deliverable product.
This could be done.
However some welding of sections might have to be done on site.
I don't see that as a huge problem. You truck an MG set with you and a first class welder. A portable X-Ray machine to check the welds.
However, radiation shielding will be a problem. I don't see that as very portable. It could be.
Initial units could easily be barged. And since water cooling would be a good thing (to start) that might not be bad.
You pour the concrete (for shielding and control building) wait a month for it to cure. Bring in the reactor and wiring harnesses. Install. Place the roof. Test. Power. Probably 3 to 6 months from start to power to the grid.
However some welding of sections might have to be done on site.
I don't see that as a huge problem. You truck an MG set with you and a first class welder. A portable X-Ray machine to check the welds.
However, radiation shielding will be a problem. I don't see that as very portable. It could be.
Initial units could easily be barged. And since water cooling would be a good thing (to start) that might not be bad.
You pour the concrete (for shielding and control building) wait a month for it to cure. Bring in the reactor and wiring harnesses. Install. Place the roof. Test. Power. Probably 3 to 6 months from start to power to the grid.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
Spherical fiber composite pressure vessels produced from equivalent sized shell sections could be trucked and built up on site ... will need bit of work on flange/seal design. Could use hemispheres or even six similar geometry sections as for the polyhedral stereographic projection of the Magrid onto the wiffle-ball produces, e.g. here
viewtopic.php?t=650&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30
see bottom of page.
Or higher order polyhedrals onto sphere for smaller sections still?
viewtopic.php?t=650&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30
see bottom of page.
Or higher order polyhedrals onto sphere for smaller sections still?
If it needs to be welded on site the welding can be automated.Aero wrote:Yes - I was thinking highway delivery, but river traffic can go to a lot of places. How about rail? There is a width problem with rail, isn't there? I mean, I'm assuming that the vacuum chamber would be shipped as a complete unit. Is that necessary?
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
So ... we need a working machine (proof of concept), then we can design a factory to mass produce these things sized to the optimum power point, that is, dollars per kilowatt including delivery and setup on a prepared site. Site specific costs not included. Mass production should drive the costs down to a large extent and certainly reduce the expense of Government Quality Control efforts. Someone help me out here, I'm going to give a SWAG of $50 million per 100 Megawatt, that is, $500 per kilowatt. (Production costs of a quarter of the prototype costs.) That is a little more expensive than I would like but it is in the ball park cost of Gas Turbine generators. And I have a gut feel that we can do a lot better, cost wise. Just nothing to base it on.
Aero
I agree. Building BFR's in factories should be considerably more cost effective than site-built.
3 way field joints for vacuum will be tough even with welding.
I have always had to keep the vacuum joints simple to make them work.
Have any of you experienced vacuum heads found a way to make a 3-way (i.e. Y-shaped joint) seal work for hard vacuum?
If there is a solution to this, I really really want to know what it is.
I think I would slice the chamber into rings that had circular sealing surfaces.
This would leave height as an issue. But it may be tractable.
It would also ease the job of putting large items inside the chamber.
House movers move things this size regularly on roads & streets, but not all that far (usually < 50 miles).
I expect most of these to be installed in industrial districts where the power draws are highest and where the transportation system is built to accommodate lots of trucks, trains, barges, ships & large loads.
There was a thread (under implications called transportation iirc) that addressed some of these issues.
We don't need to be able to place these absolutely everywhere.
We just need to tie into the power grid in a robustly & widely distributed way.
3 way field joints for vacuum will be tough even with welding.
I have always had to keep the vacuum joints simple to make them work.
Have any of you experienced vacuum heads found a way to make a 3-way (i.e. Y-shaped joint) seal work for hard vacuum?
If there is a solution to this, I really really want to know what it is.
I think I would slice the chamber into rings that had circular sealing surfaces.
This would leave height as an issue. But it may be tractable.
It would also ease the job of putting large items inside the chamber.
House movers move things this size regularly on roads & streets, but not all that far (usually < 50 miles).
I expect most of these to be installed in industrial districts where the power draws are highest and where the transportation system is built to accommodate lots of trucks, trains, barges, ships & large loads.
There was a thread (under implications called transportation iirc) that addressed some of these issues.
We don't need to be able to place these absolutely everywhere.
We just need to tie into the power grid in a robustly & widely distributed way.
-Tom Boydston-
"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn’t be called research, would it?" ~Albert Einstein
"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn’t be called research, would it?" ~Albert Einstein
On thinking about it further, it occurs to me that the mechanism for delivery of the vacuum chamber will probably be the same whether the BFR is site built or factory built. That is, the vacuum chamber will not be built on site no matter what. Maybe assembled on site, but the pieces will be made elsewhere. Of course oversized objects can be delivered by air, the space shuttle on the top of a 747 is an example. It just takes proper motivation, that is, economic motivation.
Aero
Air Delivery
We are talking about a vacuum chamber. It isn't solid, mostly empty space (O.K., filled with gas before it gets all the interior pumped out, but you know what I mean...). I would be interested to see if this is something that can be lifted by heavy-lift helicopter. Boat or barge it close, then heliport it in to the final place.Aero wrote:Of course oversized objects can be delivered by air,...
Of course, since none of us really know how big this thing might really be, deciding on a transportation method for an as of yet not designed device really is too far in front of the problem. I don't think that the long pole in the tent will be getting the final production device to the operational site. (Personally, the physics and developmental engineering to get it working seems a much bigger challenge, and IF it works, then the optimization and production efforts, and then, way down the list, the transportation...)
Be Safe
Mumbles
Boeing just teamed with Skyhook to develop a commercial 30 - 40 ton heavy lift vehicle.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/ima ... ing_lg.jpg
And here is a link to the article,
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Boe ... ket-04970/
So size of components shouldn't be a problem. Maybe the problem is just how far to integrate the reactor in the factory and how much work to do at the site.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/ima ... ing_lg.jpg
And here is a link to the article,
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Boe ... ket-04970/
So size of components shouldn't be a problem. Maybe the problem is just how far to integrate the reactor in the factory and how much work to do at the site.
Aero
You and I talked about this before, a 3 meter magnetic polywell core, is shippable by rail or truck. A lot of potential there to ease things along.MSimon wrote:This could be done.
Assembly of magnetic cores on site gets problematic, no ?
I like the p-B11 resonance peak at 50 KV acceleration. In2 years we'll know.
Certainly at first.Roger wrote:You and I talked about this before, a 3 meter magnetic polywell core, is shippable by rail or truck. A lot of potential there to ease things along.MSimon wrote:This could be done.
Assembly of magnetic cores on site gets problematic, no ? :-)
What will be possible after 30 yrs development is anyone's guess.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.