A new nuclear power device

Discuss the technical details of an "open source" community-driven design of a polywell reactor.

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eros
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Post by eros »

icedragonw1 wrote:using a deuterium or lead blanket would work well as a way of capturing the energy from the neutrons.
Though it's my lack of knowledge in certain areas of nuclear technology, but I thought that fission produced thermal energy as well as neutrons.
When neutrons and gammas hit material, they produce heat. Like in normal nuclear plant.
Heat needs thermal cycle to convert electricity. And thermodynamics say that you need high as posible temperature to gain max amount electricity. In normal nuclear plant temp is ~300C and gain ~34% efficiency. In coal plants things are simpler and heat is posible to reach 550-600C ~steam thecnology upper limit..

300C hot chamber definetly make some SC magnets broblem.. And remember steam pressure ~130bar in that temp.
Direct electricity is so nice thing. So look anneutronic fusions.

btw fast neutrons breed uranium only slow neutrons fissions. Lot of neutrons ofcourse make transuranides to fission, but if like do that then you need lot of neutrons so basically it is fusion reactor and only minor amount fission happens.

Anyway neutrons are usable to breed thorium and uranium and they are also usable to transmutate fission waste harmless.

Anybody knows how big crossection U238 or Th232 have compared B10? If use them to shield magnets in DD reactor..
Slurry or UF6 to circulate. Maybe put diffusion system in same circulation? There is lot of U238 waste, if breed it nox fuel, no, better to breed with thorium, so it is more difficult to separate U233 than plutonium and BFR shield circulation come simpler to remove uranium from thorium.
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eros
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Post by eros »

MSimon wrote:Kiteman,
I'm suggesting what could be done if some one was bloody minded.
Why to scare?
If BFR works it give so much good that there is no more need to make oil wars etc.

And after US stop saying what other countries are allowed to do there is no angry terrorist against US.

Fundamentals (idiots) best way is wide people scooling. Only stupid people follow stupid leaders.

Common bloody minds, most of ideas come from hollywood, childs watch TV and learn how things solved with guns..

What are seeded that are harvested.

Maybe things are done better in future.
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MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

Yes I too have heard of this idea and wonder where its economic niche is The reactor itself is bound to be more expensive that a PWR. The and waste would just as expensive to store away safely.
Actually I think it would be cheaper than a PWR because mechanically it would be simpler and most importantly because it would be intrinsically safe from any possible accident, licensing would be cheaper.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

Common bloody minds, most of ideas come from hollywood, childs watch TV and learn how things solved with guns..
Actually it is human nature. Males are warriors. And worse is alpha males want to control stuff.

The idea that it is TV and Hollywood is nuts. For American Plains Indians there was no Hollywood in 1800 and yet they were always at war with each other. In fact some studies show that the death rates have declined in man even with the advent of Hollywood. It may be that vicarious war is a better outlet for those human impulses than real wars.

You can give boys dolls and girls truck toys at age 2 and by age 5 or 6 most boys want the trucks and most girls want the dolls. Humans are not blank slates.

It is better to deal with human nature as it is than to pretend it is something it is not. Then you can design work arounds.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Skipjack
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Post by Skipjack »

I agree. It is more nature than nurture. Humans are killers by nature. You can see that even in our closest relatives like the chimpansees or the bonobos. They too fight, fight even wars with rival tribes and kill other monkeys to eat them... I dont know if anyone of you have ever seen that (try youtube if not). It is incredibly eery and creepy to watch them kill other monkeys, literally tearing them apart, with the others of the tribe cheering. There is not much of a difference between us and them genetically and one can feel that deep down we still have this brutality in us. This is why we kill and fight wars...

eros
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Post by eros »

MSimon wrote: Actually it is human nature. Males are warriors. And worse is alpha males want to control stuff.
Maybe some, but not all people. Propeties that are bad should reduce in Darvin cycles.

The idea that it is TV and Hollywood is nuts. For American Plains Indians there was no Hollywood in 1800 and yet they were always at war with each other. In fact some studies show that the death rates have declined in man even with the advent of Hollywood. It may be that vicarious war is a better outlet for those human impulses than real wars.
You think that violence looking and child violent grow ambient don't give any effect? Maybe hollywood had make some brainwash? And I don't say that hollywood is only responsible. It make some good things too, but many films are violent and make criminals to heroes, people killing soldiers to heros etc.
It is maybe good for army recruiting, but is it right thing to rule others with power and guns? Is that what you want your children to learn?

Indians was so wild that slaves need to get from africa. Say enough? Azteck so bloodlust that kill own people etc. When man walk out from africa, ~50000 years ago man reach china, and ~40000 years ago they continued to america. You can look route from afrika to america and check what kind of people live during that route. Chinese, japanise, inuits, indians, aztecs. Cinese people quite peace lowing, japanize samurai etc. people continued north america and some continued to southamerica. Think what kind of leaders they have? What kind of people stayed and what kind of country it developed?
- lot of people stayed in china, only aggressive people and "alpha males" continued to north america, speread there for many diffrent indians start war together etc. South america continued only few strongest and cruelest leaders and they make bigger civilizations as north. But how they ruled? With blood.
Enviroment selection make things happens, but selectivity is big thing. If give power for "alpha mans" then it make wars until there is only one. Rule is blood.
If give room for peacefull rule then sience grow. As in greeck, arab, and later in europe. Religion is bad thing for sience, but it can keep civilization together especially in wild enviroment. Until religions collapse and sience start grow.

Kill rates don't prove anything. Medical care, better food, and laws, prisons effect much more who are killed. It is somekind of solution also to put 2% mens to prison. Is it good or effective is other question..

You can give boys dolls and girls truck toys at age 2 and by age 5 or 6 most boys want the trucks and most girls want the dolls. Humans are not blank slates.
Enviroment effect is heavy. Boy can interested other things too. Girl keeps doll, but that come genes and child production. And boy playing dolls exsist also.
We are not totally blank, but enviroment give 90% effect how things are later.

It is better to deal with human nature as it is than to pretend it is something it is not. Then you can design work arounds.
I think that grow time is most important. Enviroment gain or decrease genes effect.
Beter genes continue and bads go less. Process is extremely slow. (and I think it go backwards nowdays)
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Skipjack
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Post by Skipjack »

Actually our genes are what has the strongest effect on our behaviour.
The environment has less impact that we orginally thought.
As I said, look at our closest relatives, the chimpansees. Of course you should also read up on genetics. You know that science has been arround for a while...

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

eros,

We have reduced the Darwin stuff in Europe. You break the peace and we will destroy you. That gives you the opportunity to pretend your superiority.

I note that Yugoslavia festered in your own back yard for years and finally the Americans had to come in and kick some ass. Now it is disputed if we kicked the right asses but the mass killings are down.

BTW human females prefer to breed with the alphas. Often they will sneak off to breed with the alphas and get the betas to help raise the kids.

You know why I like America? We still love our alphas. We do prefer them to be at least semi-civilized though. We have carrots and we have sticks. The Russians love their alphas too. Trouble is all they know is sticks.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

Actually the process of gene selection in humans is rather fast. Jews raised their average IQ by 10 or 15 points in about 500 years under European persecution ahem selection pressure.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

jmc
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Post by jmc »

Were there IQ test 500 years ago?

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

jmc,

I'd have to look it up but I believe it was extrapolated. In the same way we can get estimates of ancient climate from certain markers.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Aero
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Post by Aero »

Is this topic drift?
Aero

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

Aero wrote:Is this topic drift?
Are you the thread hearder? ;-)
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Mike Holmes
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Post by Mike Holmes »

To the extent that we all have an interest in focused discussions, we're all thread herders. The community only does as well as it's individual members require us each to do.

Let me put it this way... I would still like to hear more on the sorts of reactors that folks were discussing above. Are these really potentially practical designs, or still very theoretical?

Mike

drmike
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Post by drmike »

"Potentially practical" is an interesting phrase. :)

The main problem is reprocessing. Getting that economical is easier with a hybrid reactor than with a pure fission reactor, but it's still hard.

Harder still is the politics. Once we overcome the fear of the word "nuclear" (let alone some ability to pronounce it right!) the hybrid schemes will have a much better potential.

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