Seeking assistance with a plan for well-funded polywell R&D

Discuss funding sources for polywell research, including the non-profit EMC2 Fusion Development Corporation, as well as any other relevant research efforts.

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MSimon
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Re: Seeking assistance with a plan for well-funded polywell

Postby MSimon » Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:40 pm

ladajo wrote:
MSimon wrote:I'm really not much of a physics guy either. I'm an engineer. I know enough of the physics to do engineering. I'm an EE type. Power and control. You will need an ME.

So first on your list should be a physics guy for design guidelines. Second an ME.

Question: Pulsed operation or superconductors? Second question B11 superconductors for long life or ordinary B supers for low cost?

For physics drmike might be good http://www.talk-polywell.org/bb/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=48


Mike, I don't mean to be a shyte, but you are a self-taught controls guy, you are not an EE. You don't have the paper, and haven't paid the blood and sweat to get one. There are plenty of guys and gals out there who did pay the blood and sweat for the paper, who have just as much or more experience as well as some of them being better than you. You dismiss them by claiming EE and that is uncool. If you want to say you are an EE then go get the paper. Otherwise, you are a self-taught controls guy who actually doesn't know what he doesn't know from an engineering undergraduate program because he never did one. Lots of folks can speck stuff from a catalog, as well as manage projects. That does not make you a real engineer.
At best, it makes you an engineering technician without a degree (because there is even formal education for that which you don't have). Again, I am not trying to be a shyte, but you really should respect those who have the real credentials and do the real work.


And Freeman Dyson is not a Physicist.

==============

As to respecting those with "real" credentials? I have seen enough idiocy from that bunch to have zero respect for paper. Let us discuss the problem at hand and from what I learn from that I will decide if you are respectable. Stupid people with degrees are a dime a dozen and much cheaper by the bale.

I have had degreed EEs tell me such things as:

"How can a half inch of unterminated digital line cause a problem?" The degrees (about 3 or 4 of them) studied it for 6 months and couldn't figure out the cause of the PLL not locking. It only took me a month to solve it. I guess that makes me 6 times better than the degreed. Well maybe infinitely better since they didn't solve it. Glad I don't have one. Dodged a bullet by avoiding college.

"The length of an unterminated digital line is not important." ($3 million failure on that one. And I tried to tell them from the first week I was on the project. "Fixing it as you suggest (new board layout) would cause a one month schedule hit. We can't afford it. We have a product delivery deadline." They never did deliver. Heh. )

"A transformer can deliver its rated RMS power as DC in a rectifier/capacitor circuit" - Me - "No it can't it is pulsed power. The losses are higher" (under my breath "you idiot").

"A 10 mil line can carry 1 amp. The losses are unimportant." - And that was in aerospace. And if you look at PCB specs a 10 mil line CAN carry 1 amp. The losses however....

I'm an EE by ability. Those fooks were merely EEs by degree. Who would you prefer for your space ship design?

My biggest advantage? I am unable to assume I learned what I need to know in school. i.e. I am unhandicapped by the assumption of knowledge.

===============

I'm also pretty good at laying out PCBs.

http://spacetimepro.blogspot.com/2014/08/lpc1114lqfp-devl-15julyl2014.html
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Tyler Jordan
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Re: Seeking assistance with a plan for well-funded polywell

Postby Tyler Jordan » Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:26 pm

ladajo wrote:Mike, I don't mean to be a shyte, but you are a self-taught controls guy, you are not an EE. You don't have the paper, and haven't paid the blood and sweat to get one. There are plenty of guys and gals out there who did pay the blood and sweat for the paper, who have just as much or more experience as well as some of them being better than you. You dismiss them by claiming EE and that is uncool. If you want to say you are an EE then go get the paper. Otherwise, you are a self-taught controls guy who actually doesn't know what he doesn't know from an engineering undergraduate program because he never did one. Lots of folks can speck stuff from a catalog, as well as manage projects. That does not make you a real engineer.
At best, it makes you an engineering technician without a degree (because there is even formal education for that which you don't have). Again, I am not trying to be a shyte, but you really should respect those who have the real credentials and do the real work.


We are here to advance the ideas of polywell. IMO, everything outside of that is a no-go. For one it is a real distraction for everyone - even yourself, to let your personal feelings about someone interfere with the efforts that this community is focused upon. If you cannot keep your feelings to yourself and focus on the ideas then I am not interested in your help.

Now let's shake it off and bring the focus back to fusion :-) - Our shared passion!
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ladajo
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Re: Seeking assistance with a plan for well-funded polywell

Postby ladajo » Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:57 pm

Mike,
The comments you made are helping make my point. They are more aligned with Engineering Technician than Engineer.
Also, citing your limited experiences with a world full of good engineers, I don't think that you can generalize as broadly as you are attempting.
Your sample size is too small.

In any event, you know that I think you are competent in what you do related to electronics, especially as one former RO to another. I just don't think you should be as dismissive as you have tendency to be with those who have paid the dues and have the ability, just because they paid the dues.

I think there are morons at every level and in every field. That, however, does not make all folks in the field morons.
You have issues establishing generalizability of your data, which also have validity issues sometimes. This applies across most things you discuss.
It makes what you are trying to argue less credible.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

derg
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Re: Seeking assistance with a plan for well-funded polywell

Postby derg » Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:17 am

I agree with MSimon- in engineering in particular there is no direct correlation between credentials and ability. Naturally those who've spent lots of time and money in schools will tend to be credentialist.

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Re: Seeking assistance with a plan for well-funded polywell

Postby Teemu » Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:23 pm

derg wrote:I agree with MSimon- in engineering in particular there is no direct correlation between credentials and ability. Naturally those who've spent lots of time and money in schools will tend to be credentialist.


That's not the issue.

All elephants are gray (except albino ones) but not everything that is gray is an elephant.

If you wake up one morning and notice your skin is gray, you are not an elephant, not even if that gray is of more beautiful hue than of some elephants. :P

If you claimed yourself to be elephant, just because you gray got skin, that kinda makes you credentialist.

Just because you think you do certain tasks often or usually done by electrical engineering better than some electrical engineers does not make you an electrical engineer.

There are plenty of mathematicians who end up teaching math in elementary school. If I were to teach math in elementary school with my engineering background, if I did better job than many people with mathematician education, can I now claim to be mathematician? No.

Many mathematicians work for insurance companies doing probability calculations. If I were to do that better than some mathematicians, would I be a mathematician? No.

Accounting is the most math heavy specialization for "ekonomi" (person who has BSc + Msc degrees in Business&Economy related stuff here). If I were to get into accounting and do that better than some "ekonomi", can I claim to be an "ekonomi"? No.

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Re: Seeking assistance with a plan for well-funded polywell

Postby MSimon » Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:55 am

Well I was hired by an aerospace company twice for about two years each stint (10 years apart) as an engineer. Programming, circuit design, systems design. And misc disaster clean up.

I may not have gone to school. I believe I qualified.

Credentialism is the stupidest racket going. When I'm doing hiring I barely glance at school work. I look for capability. It is a better indicator.

And yes. A lot of time on the bench as a technician greatly improves engineering ability. I believe the Japanese require a one year stint before a person fully qualifies an engineer. In the US there is no such requirement. Pity. What advantage does that give you? You see the real problems up close and personal. You tend to avoid designing things that can't be built. And if your technician(s) need some coaching you can help them. I once taught a technician assigned to me how to solder. He was a friend forever after.

In fact I had some managers who were not happy with me and so they assigned me their lowest performing people. I turned the team around and made my unit the best performing in the section. So I have some management skills. And I didn't need an MBA. But I did and do read extensively and not just engineering stuff.

And besides engineering I can write. Self taught at that too. What does that kind of ability get you? Well I can work well on the frontiers because I know how to learn things not taught in schools.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
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MSimon
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Re: Seeking assistance with a plan for well-funded polywell

Postby MSimon » Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:36 pm

School is not required for performance. It may be a requirement to get in the guild.

http://www.singularity2050.com/2014/07/the-education-disruption-2015.html

Google, always leading the way, no longer mandates college degrees as a requirement, and has recently disclosed that about 14% of its employees do not have them. If a few other technology companies follow suit, then the workforce will soon have a pool of people working at very desirable employers, who managed to attain their position without the time and expense of college. If employers in less dynamic sectors still have resistance to this concept, they will find it harder to ignore the growing number of resumes from people who happen to be alumni of Google, despite not having the required degree. As change happens on the margins, it will only take a small percentage of the workforce to be hired by prestigious employers.

The Disruption Begins at the Top : Since this disruption is technological and almost entirely about software, perhaps the disruption has to originate where the people most directly responsible for the disruption exist.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
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THE OPEN POLYWELL FUSION CONSORTIUM

Teemu
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Re: Seeking assistance with a plan for well-funded polywell

Postby Teemu » Sun Jan 04, 2015 8:58 pm

I bet 99% those people applying without degree are not going to call themselves computer science engineers, but rather programmers or someting else, because computer science engineer is a title for specific education, not skill set. Elon Musk or Mark Zuckerberg might have been better at programming the year they graduated high school than the average computer science engineer graduating the same year, but I'm pretty sure neither of them has ever called themselves computer science engineers.

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Re: Seeking assistance with a plan for well-funded polywell

Postby MSimon » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:49 am

Teemu wrote:I bet 99% those people applying without degree are not going to call themselves computer science engineers, but rather programmers or someting else, because computer science engineer is a title for specific education, not skill set. Elon Musk or Mark Zuckerberg might have been better at programming the year they graduated high school than the average computer science engineer graduating the same year, but I'm pretty sure neither of them has ever called themselves computer science engineers.

And if the education leaves out something important?

All this guild stuff is for the benefit of the guild masters. There is a reason the guilds died in the past. It will be the same reason they don't last in the present and future. Knowledge diffuses.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
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THE OPEN POLYWELL FUSION CONSORTIUM

ladajo
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Re: Seeking assistance with a plan for well-funded polywell

Postby ladajo » Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:15 pm

Did you feel that way when you were qualifying RO?
How about your boat pin?

You are a hypocrit.

You are also not an engineer. You are a guy with some engineering experience.
There are also legal implications to this. Especially since you can not PE your work.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

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Re: Seeking assistance with a plan for well-funded polywell

Postby Teemu » Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:57 pm

MSimon wrote:And if the education leaves out something important?


So? It is still the title for specific degrees, and shouldn't be hijacked and redefined as something else. As job description, electrical engineer is so vague and non-specific, that it would be stupid to redefine that term from a well defined one to meaningless one.

Are you planning to start to use language that implies that you have PhD, just because you feel like that?

No one who has made it big in IT goes around calling themselves CSE, if they don't have degree from CSE. If not out of respect for those people who have it, then out of respect for themselves. When you try imply that you have a specific degree that you don't actually have, you admit that you have issues with not actually having that degree. Bill Gates might have dozen honorary doctorates but he isn't going around using language that implies him actually having a real doctorate, since he doesn't have any issues with not having any actual college degree.

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Re: Seeking assistance with a plan for well-funded polywell

Postby MSimon » Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:24 pm

ladajo wrote:Did you feel that way when you were qualifying RO?
How about your boat pin?

You are a hypocrit.

You are also not an engineer. You are a guy with some engineering experience.
There are also legal implications to this. Especially since you can not PE your work.

Yep. I'm not a PE. And you know what qualifying involves. They set you down with a stack of manuals and it is your job to learn them by heart. The rest is OJT on site. Then they give you tests and a final oral. Mine lasted over 3 hours until they found a question I couldn't answer. And no ordinary board. I had 12 or so of the top site guys trying out my knowledge. Naval and civilian. I'm told it was a rather large board for orals. And lasted rather longer than usual. My instructors debriefed me after and they were beaming.

As to the school portion at Mare Island? It was a joke for me. I could read the books and get it. I mostly read motorcycle magazines in class. The thermo instructor thought he had me one day. Asked what the next term in a 3 board long equation was. I pointed out to him that I couldn't give it correctly because he had made an error one and a half boards back. He left me to my motorcycle magazines after that. The thermo guy was a top physics guy from Berkeley. He was convinced I wasn't taking his class seriously. And it is true. I wasn't. My daughter got a ChemE Degree from UIllinois recently. Top of her class. For amusement we like to discuss thermo. Bright girl. She breezed through it from what she tells me. Must run in the family.

I can learn quite well on my own.

And as you well know thermo was the big wash out class. I was tops or very near the top.

Other than the OJT I didn't need to be taught. But I have been doing electronics since age 10. Got my Radiotelephone 1st at 17 1/2. The youngest allowed. Couldn't practice 'til I hit 18 though. I passed the General test for Amateur Radio at age 13. Not too tough. I may have missed one question. Or none. It was a long time ago.

Oh. Yeah. I probably should mention that I didn't do classes at ET school. I mostly did liberty since I was taking two weeks of tests each week and other wise skipped class. It was a program they had for guys who already knew electronics. Got me through that in 1/2 the time. I could have gone faster but I was enjoying all the liberty in Frisco and Bezerkeley. No point rushing too much. IIRC I did have to take the actual radio classes where we worked on an Xmtr and Rcvr. OJT. I was a wiz at PLLs. Came in handy later when I worked on putting a microprocessor in the Xmtr and Rcvr for a Navy contract. Late 70s or early 80s.

And darn it. I wasn't trained in microprocessors. The Navy inspectors like my code though. Said it was the best written stuff they had seen in two or three years. Yep. No school has been a serious handicap compared to "real" engineers. It is a wonder I did as well as I did with no training. Aerospace engineering. Not bad for a guy with no training.

There were no schools for microprocessors when I started in '75. By '78 I had designed an I/O board that went in the world's first BBS. Not bad for a technician. And all I did was read the manuals. But yeah. I'm not a "real" engineer. Most of those I worked with didn't know electronics as well as I did. Until I got to Aerospace. The holes in their knowledge base always amused me. After all. They went to school and all I did was study.
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Re: Seeking assistance with a plan for well-funded polywell

Postby mvanwink5 » Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:52 pm

So, is Polywell dead due to no interest in funding it, all the gubermant crony money goin to bird / bat choppers and we care chest ribbons??
Near term, cheap, dark horse fusion hits the air waves, GF - TED, LM - Announcement. The race is on.

ladajo
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Re: Seeking assistance with a plan for well-funded polywell

Postby ladajo » Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:16 pm

Mike,
You would not have passed ET school in Great Lakes with that kind of behavior. You also would not have passed NPS of the 80's. They would have tossed you out.
IRT Prototype, you self admitted played the game. Granted you like to embelish circumstance with self-agrandisement, however, you make my point. You in all cases met the requirements to get the "piece of paper". Once you got to your boat, you did the same, again. I don't recall what boat you went to, it was too long ago that we discussed that, however, as you well know, if you don't play, you don't qual. If you don't qual you get tossed off.

As you oft profess to have been the historically smartest guy in the room, you sound very much like other life-fail nukes I have know. They did the same, and as you have so aptly shown around here, you fell way short of the true contributions you could have made to our society, our nation, and our world. It is a sad waste of talent based on socio-pathic tendencies which you have retained your entire life. To this day and moment you are convinced you are better then everyone else and your misguided and poorly researched opinions are always the only right answer. I knew another RO just like you, and he is also a one tour wonder life fail. His favorite debate line was, "we are not arguing, I am telling you where you are wrong." To this day I still think that is one of the funniest and saddest things I have heard someone say. I am sure you are familiar with it. He, like you, was probably not well liked as a watch team member, mostly because he was not on the team, he was a self proclaimed team of one that knew better than all. The kind of guy that eventually lets his ego destroy equipment and kill others. That is why guys like you never really get real authority. And when you do, it is limited in time and scope, while the organization that granted it keeps close tabs on leveraging your possible abilities temporarily, with no intent to keep you long term.

How many jobs have you had? How long have they lasted on average? How much time have you spent without a real job? How much money have you taken from taxpayers?

You are a taker from our society, self proclaimed even. You rely on the rest of us to support your fundamental largess and ego. It is wrong. You should try and support the team for once. You will find it amazing how fast your life would improve and self sustain. You have some ability, and news flash: you are not the smartest guy in the room, but you do have talent and ability, and if it was not for the chip on your shoulder where you think deep down no one takes you seriously (they don't because you act out like a petulant child who thinks they know better), you would do much better.

Too bad about not being a Professional Engineer. You might have actually been a good one, hubris not withstanding.
You know, I have designed mechanical components, and seen them get adopted as a standard method. One of my favorites was a non-binding weight cell mounting system (fairly proud of that one). But I don't run around saying I am a Mechanical Engineer, it is not my lane, nor my qualifications. Not what I really did or do. But I think I can say I have some experience, and that is good enough for me. I also at one point did some Telecommunications circuit card and processor design and engineering work for programmble digital switching equipment. But, never claimed to be a Telecommunications Engineer. I, again, have some experience in Telecommunications Engineering, but that is it.

You live in a culture that you claim to depise and decry. You want to make the culture conform to your perception of what the culture should be. Because the culture ignores you, you reject it and substitute your own reality based on self delusion.

You are not an Electrical Engineer, nor are you qualified to say you are. At best, you are an Engineering Technician. And the funny part is you don't even really know what that is, just like you don't really know what being a real engineer or being educated is. Doing some engineering work does not make you a fully fledged engineer. Just like going to sea on a submarine does not make you a submariner. There is more to it.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

KitemanSA
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Re: Seeking assistance with a plan for well-funded polywell

Postby KitemanSA » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:25 pm

Well, Thank you Ladajo and MSimon, you have totally side-tracked this topic too.


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