Cold Fusion Proven True by U.S. Navy Researchers

[CharlesKramer]

Your opinion may be dated. There are many things going on in LENR.

I hope you're correct (and I have no reason to suggest you're not).

One thing about LENR that seems the most curious -- is the repeatably reaction that you speak of big enough to be exciting? Or, if not big, is there a theoretical reason to hope it can be scaled up?

One possibility seems to be that fusion occurs naturally in nature all the time at "cold" temperatures -- but so intermittently, or at such a high energy price, that it's more interesting than useful.

CK

[MSimon]

Or, if not big, is there a theoretical reason to hope it can be scaled up?

There is no functional theory re: Cold Fusion. Lots of conjecture floating around though. But it is an interesting field of research that may turn up something.

[MSimon]

But aren't you conceding my point? That -- for whatever reason -- LENR is mostly mysteries. At best one can say something odd happens often enough to be interesting, but what is happening, and the exact conditions to reproduce it, and whether it's nuclear, and whether (nuclear or not) it's useful is all still a mystery.

I'd say that even with the latest results that is a fair statement. Something odd is happening. What it is is not exactly clear.

[IntLibber]

Real reproducibility is the SAME result EVERY time. Half isn't good enough, and "something" happening every time isn't the same result..

Charles, this sort of a statement doesn't reflect reality, because in reality, researchers tend to modify their experiments for IP reasons

I'm an IP lawyer -- though not a patent lawyer -- but I still know a little about the patent "doctrine of equivalence" and the need to change steps in a process to create a new (well, new enough) and patentable variant.

But aren't you conceding my point? That -- for whatever reason -- LENR is mostly mysteries. At best one can say something odd happens often enough to be interesting, but what is happening, and the exact conditions to reproduce it, and whether it's nuclear, and whether (nuclear or not) it's useful is all still a mystery. That is different form a proven event that may take decades (or forever) to commercialize.

CBK

I thought your point was that the same experiment needed to be reproducible every time, but that half did not reproduce. My point is that its not always the same experiment being reproduced, and when it isn't the skeptics dont note this and still chalk it up as one more failure for cold fusion.

[CharlesKramer]

I thought your point was that the same experiment needed to be reproducible every time, but that half did not reproduce

That too.

My point is that its not always the same experiment being reproduced, and when it isn't the skeptics dont note this and still chalk it up as one more failure for cold fusion.

Interesting, but I don't find it convincing. The experiments are comparatively cheap. There's no reason there can't be confirmation + variation.

I believe I read speculation that (seemingly) inconsistent results can be explained by things we don't know how to measure yet, or don't believe are important to measure. For example, tiny differences between palladium supplies. But even that seems possible to compensate for.

Not long ago (2006), Pons or Fleishmann was in a publicly traded company trying to get the reaction reliable enough to make a practical space heater. Ah, it was Fleishmann (I just checked). The company was D2 Fusion. That it apparently went nowhere before being bought says a lot: decades after the original triumph, LENR re-emerges as what looks like little more than a penny stock scam.

Maybe new developments change the picture. Still no space heaters tho.

CK

Cold Fusion
Russ George, of D2Fusion, built a strong case with solid scientific evidence for cold fusion as real, repeatable, and feasible as an energy source. His publicly-traded company (SLRE.ob) has received significant funding. With the collaboration of Dr.Martin Fleischman, who conducted the original cold fusion experiments with Dr. Pons, the company expects to have a cold-fusion heater ready for market as soon as 2007.

[CharlesKramer]

Cold Fusion
Russ George, of D2Fusion, built a strong case with solid scientific evidence for cold fusion as real, repeatable, and feasible as an energy source. His publicly-traded company (SLRE.ob) has received significant funding. With the collaboration of Dr.Martin Fleischman, who conducted the original cold fusion experiments with Dr. Pons, the company expects to have a cold-fusion heater ready for market as soon as 2007.

PS

Apparently D2Fusion was purchased by Solar, which later planned to sell divest D2Fusion to Enwin Resources (ENWN:Pink OTC Markets Inc.) a penny stock which is now delisted and without operations. The website www.d2fusion.com is down. I'm not sure the sale to ENWN was completed but nothing is happening at that company either.

Maybe what really happened was penny stock sharpies tried to exploit this area, but it does show how tainted it remains (which is why I am suprised it has been compared here to Polywell, which -- I hope -- has a more solid foundation). More info...

http://www.newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/com ... mary.shtml

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:D2Fusion,_Inc.

[Tom Ligon]

Intlibber,

According to Fermi, "No experiment is worth doing unless it has at least a 50% chance of failure." This definition makes CF experiments a success.

Picture a practical situation ... a city has been built in a valley at the mouth of a river. Every 30 years they have a large earthquake. The buildings are all similar in construction, but only some of them fall down, in clusters in a few neighborhoods.

Clearly this is not reproducible, Do we conclude that the underlying cause of the differences are not worth looking in to, just because nobody can explain it?

What science has done is investigate the anomolies. By looking diligently for the cause, science has found that certain soil types tend to fluidize, or even erupt into sand geysers, causing the buildings constructed on them to fail spectacularly. At the same time, the pattern shifts due to the relative location of the epicenter, which affects where standing waves form, and the degree of destruction varies with both the intensity and duration of the temblor.

What science did not do was state "the building failure is unpredicatable and irreproducible. There is no underlying science to be learned. Do not study this or you will be denounced as a fraud."

[Axil]

Your opinion may be dated. There are many things going on in LENR.

I hope you're correct (and I have no reason to suggest you're not).

One thing about LENR that seems the most curious -- is the repeatably reaction that you speak of big enough to be exciting? Or, if not big, is there a theoretical reason to hope it can be scaled up?

One possibility seems to be that fusion occurs naturally in nature all the time at "cold" temperatures -- but so intermittently, or at such a high energy price, that it's more interesting than useful.

CK

I am interested in transmutation of elements through cavatation. The experimental work done on this LENR subfield is mainly done in Russia. Radioactive elements (nuclear waste) are transmuted and stabilized in accelerated time frames using cavatation. This can be very useful in eliminating light water reactor wastes in mere months rather than in a million years.

This alchemy is amazing. I was particularly intrigued by a simple electrolysis experiment that uses only ultra pure water and carbon. DC power is arced across the carbon electrodes to produce 30 different elements including iron and lead in an hour of two.

More precisely, it shows the production of micro to milligram quantities of a long list of primarily metals starting with nothing more than ultra-pure graphite and water, providing compelling verification of similar experiments performed at Texas A&M University, Oak Ridge Nuclear Laboratories and the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre.

The economic production of rare isotopes can be of great value to the nuclear industry if a reliable LENR manufacturing process can be developed.

The instantaneous production of nano-diamonds by a cavitation process has already been demonstrated using graphite feed stock. This process is now being commercialized.

[kurt9]

More on the ACS cold fusion meeting:

http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/03/cold-f ... mical.html

George Miley talks about a cold fusion battery he is developing.

There is also more about Black Light Power:

http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/03/blackl ... -that.html

I do recall that Black Light Power was supposed to unveil a generator last fall.

[Skipjack]

I do recall that Black Light Power was supposed to unveil a generator last fall.

Well, given their track history, I would say "There is no such thing!"

[chrismb]

I am interested in transmutation of elements through cavatation. The experimental work done on this LENR subfield is mainly done in Russia. Radioactive elements (nuclear waste) are transmuted and stabilized in accelerated time frames using cavatation. This can be very useful in eliminating light water reactor wastes in mere months rather than in a million years.

What are you talking about????

I realise this forum blends science fiction with science, but keep it real, eh!?

[MSimon]

I am interested in transmutation of elements through cavatation. The experimental work done on this LENR subfield is mainly done in Russia. Radioactive elements (nuclear waste) are transmuted and stabilized in accelerated time frames using cavatation. This can be very useful in eliminating light water reactor wastes in mere months rather than in a million years.

What are you talking about????

I realise this forum blends science fiction with science, but keep it real, eh!?

The cavitation guy in the US was found to be a fraud by the US Navy.

Taleyarkhan is his name.

[Axil]

I am interested in transmutation of elements through cavatation. The experimental work done on this LENR subfield is mainly done in Russia. Radioactive elements (nuclear waste) are transmuted and stabilized in accelerated time frames using cavatation. This can be very useful in eliminating light water reactor wastes in mere months rather than in a million years.

What are you talking about????

I realise this forum blends science fiction with science, but keep it real, eh!?

Sometimes fact is stranger than science fiction. I am sorry to have shocked you. I should have been more obscure.

Here is what I am taking about.

First off, I think that the theory behind this is quantum mechanical in nature. One attractive theory involves the Bose-Einstein condensation mechanism for low-energy nuclear reaction (LENR) and transmutation processes in condensed matter. See the following:

Mixtures of Charged Bosons Confined in Harmonic Traps and Bose-
Einstein Condensation Mechanism for Low Energy Nuclear
Reactions and Transmutation Processes in Condensed Matter

Yeong E. Kim and Alexander L. Zubarev
Purdue Nuclear and Many-Body Theory Group (PNMBTG)
Department of Physics, Purdue University
West Lafayette, Indiana 47907

http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/KimYEmixturesof.pdf

As an experimental framework to fit this theroy into, here are some examples of transmutation through LENR.



Low-energy nuclear reactions and the leptonic monopole - Georges Lochak, Leonid Urutskoev

http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/LochakGlowenergyn.pdf

Low Energy Transmutation of Atomic Nuclei of Chemical Elements - V.D.KUZNETSOV, G.V.MISHINSKY, F.M.PENKOV, V.I.ARBUZOV, V.I.ZHEMENIK

http://www.ensmp.fr/aflb/AFLB-282/aflb282p173.pdf

Experimental observation of the distortion of the uranium isotopic relationship and violation of the thorium- 234 secular equilibrium upon electric explosion

http://www.ensmp.fr/aflb/AFLB-301/aflb301m182.pdf

[MSimon]

It would be nice if we had some confirmation from German, Japanese, or American scientists.

The Russians are not careful experimentalists.

What was the experiment that created such a furor and was later discovered to be glass from the experiment container dissolved in water?

[Axil]

It would be nice if we had some confirmation from German, Japanese, or American scientists.

The Russians are not careful experimentalists.

What was the experiment that created such a furor and was later discovered to be glass from the experiment container dissolved in water?

Well the US researchers are highlighted by the title of this thread: Cold Fusion Proven True by U.S. Navy Researchers.

After all, D-D fusion is transmutation of deuterium into helium. It was these workers that found triple neutron tracks in CR-39; a marker of carbon 12 disintegration into three alphas particles.

Also See

Technology Forecast: Worldwide Research on Low-Energy Nuclear Reactions

Defence Intelligence Agency
Defense Analysis Report DIA-08-0911-003
13 November 2009

http://newenergytimes.com/v2/news/2009/ ... port.shtml

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