Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:25 pm
According to 'Freakonomics' the criminal underclass failed to emerge because birth control/abortion was made available to underclass women starting about then.
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MSimon wrote:They didn't emerge. They were created by government.young hoodlum criminals emerging in the mid to late seventies
MSimon wrote: Prohibition does that you know. You want a thriving criminal class? Enact a prohibition. The more prohibitions the more criminals.
I might as well just repost what i've already said on this subject. See below.MSimon wrote: With enough prohibitions everyone is a criminal. Which is exactly what the power and control freaks want. No better way to subjugate a population than with criminal law that makes everyone suspect.
There are more factors than just drugs at work regarding the stat you cite. Simon is always saying that the sole cause of crime is drug prohibition, but I point out that the "War on Poverty" (16 trillion dollars spent thus far) is far more responsible for the damage. (1964)randomencounter wrote: The status quo of outlawed drugs has the USA with the highest percentage of our adult population incarcerated of any "civilized" country. If that isn't an imposition on the personal freedoms of *every* American then we are already slaves in fact if not in name.
randomencounter wrote: If someone is stealing to support their drug habit they are already committing a crime they can be convicted of and imprisoned for. If they commit assault because they are drunk or high the same thing applies.
Spreading AIDS ruins the lives of others, not just YOUR life. Same principal with drugs. Using involves other people, and puts them at risk for being caught up in it too. It only takes once to transfer the disease.randomencounter wrote: Freedom includes the freedom to be a stupid shit and ruin your life.
Although consumption of alcohol fell at the beginning of Prohibition, it subsequently increased. Alcohol became more dangerous to consume; crime increased and became "organized"; the court and prison systems were stretched to the breaking point; and corruption of public officials was rampant. No measurable gains were made in productivity or reduced absenteeism. Prohibition removed a significant source of tax revenue and greatly increased government spending. It led many drinkers to switch to opium, marijuana, patent medicines, cocaine, and other dangerous substances that they would have been unlikely to encounter in the absence of Prohibition.
Those results are documented from a variety of sources, most of which, ironically, are the work of supporters of Prohibition--most economists and social scientists supported it.
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa157.pdf
The homicide rate in the US peaked around '92 and has been dropping since. What changed? Policing. Police no longer take down whole gangs. One such whole gang raid happened in my town in '86. The murder rate spiked for about 6 months. It got the people in my town very upset. An FBI spokesman actually told our local paper that this was to be expected.Before Prohibition and the Harrison Narcotics Act (1914), there had been 4,000 federal convicts, fewer than 3,000 of whom were housed in federal prisons. By 1932 the number of federal convicts had increased 561 percent, to 26,589,and the federal prison population had increased 366 percent.[44] Much of the increase was due to violations of the Volstead Act and other Prohibition laws. The number of people convicted of Prohibition violations increased 1,000percent between 1925 and 1930, and fully half of all prisoners received in 1930 had been convicted of such violations.
Two-thirds of all prisoners received in 1930 had been convicted of alcohol and drug offenses, and that figure rises to75 percent of violators if other commercial prohibitions are included.[45]
The explosion in the prison population greatly increased spending on prisons and led to severe overcrowding. Total federal expenditures on penal institutions increased more than 1,000 percent between 1915 and 1932. Despite those expenditures and new prison space, prisons were severely overcrowded. In 1929 the normal capacity of Atlanta Penitentiary and Leavenworth Prison was approximately 1,500 each, but their actual population exceeded 3,700each.[46]
To some the crime wave of the 1920s remained a mere "state of mind" due mostly to media hype. For example, Dr.Fabian Franklin noted that according to one measure, crime had decreased 37.7 percent between 1910 and 1923.However, the apparent contradiction between the media hype and Franklin's declining crime statistic is resolved by the realiza- tion that violent and serious crime had increased (hence the media hype), while less serious crime had decreased. For example, theft of property increased 13.2 percent, homicide increased 16.1 percent, and robbery rose83.3 percent between 1910 and 1923, while minor crimes (which were large in number) such as vagrancy, malicious mischief, and public swearing decreased over 50 percent.[47] Even Franklin had to admit that the increased homicides may have been related to the "illegal traffic."
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa157.pdf
MSimon wrote:
The homicide rate in the US peaked around '92 and has been dropping since. What changed? Policing. Police no longer take down whole gangs. One such whole gang raid happened in my town in '86. The murder rate spiked for about 6 months. It got the people in my town very upset. An FBI spokesman actually told our local paper that this was to be expected.
Now the police focus on only the most violent members of a gang and leave the rest alone to ply their trade.
In essence the police surrendered in the war around '92. The gangs had won. And the murder rate declined back to more usual levels over the next decade.
The Drug War has been lost for 20 years. All that is left are the interest groups (gangs, cartels, police, criminal "justice") who support prohibition because without it they will be out of jobs. Of course such jobs are socialism in action and a dead weight loss to society. We might as well hire the people involved to shovel dirt with spoons.
Is a further drop possible? If Colorado legalizes we will begin that experiment. I expect an initial spike in crime and murder followed by a gradual decline as joining a gang no longer is as profitable as it once was. People will get training in more useful pursuits as those pursuits become relatively more profitable. The training academies for criminals will decline.
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There may be a natural evolution to our fractionally reserved credit system that characterizes modern global finance. Much like the universe, which began with a big bang nearly 14 billion years ago, but is expanding so rapidly that scientists predict it will all end in a “big freeze” trillions of years from now, our current monetary system seems to require perpetual expansion to maintain its existence. And too, the advancing entropy in the physical universe may in fact portend a similar decline of “energy” and “heat” within the credit markets. If so, then the legitimate response of creditors, debtors and investors inextricably intertwined within it, should logically be to ask about the economic and investment implications of its ongoing transition.