Ron Paul Supporters not welcome in Louisiana GOP

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palladin9479
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:22 am

Post by palladin9479 »

Does D every make just 1 post? All we see is pages and pages of him replying to someone, then replying to himself. I know I can get wordy sometimes but he takes it to a whole new level.

-=Edit=-

Ok got some more gasoline to add to the fires of rage that boil around here.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics ... ose/44517/

Don't know if their liberal or conservative, comments section has both fighting each other. What's important is they've got the raw results of the poll which is easy to read for anyone.

Question

Do you think the Republicans are intentionally stalling efforts to jumpstart the economy to insure that Barack Obama is not re-elected?

Image

http://www.suffolk.edu/images/content/F ... 0.2011.pdf

Guys I don't know how to say this without pissing half of you off so I'll be blunt. If you think it's perfectly fine to deliberately hinder and sabotage your nation to win an election, or you support a group that you believe does that, then you don't deserve to be a citizen of that nation.

Republicans always vote for Republicans (if they vote), Democrats always vote for Democrats (if they vote), it's the independents that decide elections. And right now the independents opinion of the Republican party isn't so hot, not that we like the Democrats either. This election will boil down to the lessor of two evils, the blind one screwing up the country on accident (Obama) or the ones screwing up the country on purpose (Republicans).

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

You will only know what the right amount of Defense spending is if wars start because you haven't spent enough. You know - the 1930s.

America's whole defense posture is based on not repeating the mistake of the 30s. Yes. It also has risks. The risk of "demo wars" to prove the willingness to fight. And compared to the early '40s Iraq and Afghanistan have been small wars.

Like all insurance it is too expensive until you need it.

But a question I never get an answer to is:

If you don't like America as the world's policeman who would you prefer? China? Russia? And would a World War to decide the top power be OK with you?

Churchill's hope was that the experience of WW2 would prevent something similar for 50 years. By his estimation we are already about 15 years overdue. He got human nature - even the worst reality horror movie loses its effect after those involved die off.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
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Except For My Pet Cause

Post by MSimon »

I'm going to post in its entirety something I posted here:

http://classicalvalues.com/2012/06/they ... et-causes/

======

Eric was looking at some new water regulations regulating rain water puddles that amount to a taking of private property. Enviros gone mad. I left a comment which I’m turning into a post.

The trouble is not just the enviros. We have a whole host of folks who say “I believe in liberty, except for (names pet cause)”.

This is a short and not exhaustive list of pet causes:

1. Drugs
2. Abortion
3. Obesity
4. Corn syrup sweeteners
5. Meat
6. Hunting
7. Guns
8. Automobiles
9. Modern Chicken Farming Methods
10. Oil
11. Nuclear Power
12. Coal
13. etc. etc. etc.

And each of those factions takes the success of any other faction as reason to push on.

As I said in another venue in relation to the current political war going on in America between the communists and the fascists:

I will play ball with the victors. Either side. Why? Because I have ceased to give a rats azz about a people who WILLINGLY give up their liberty for what? For nothing.

It seems faith in officials is now the official faith in America. That would be government officials. Enforcers. Luckily there currently seem to be enough SWAT teams to handle the job. But don’t worry. If they run low they can make more.

====

People seem to have forgotten that to have liberty for yourself you will have to allow it to others. Even if their use of that liberty disgusts you.

Right now almost every one in America is fighting to get control of the enforcers to use them against unfavored groups. By that reckoning the communists/fascists have won. There are very few saying "too many enforcers". "Too much government."

Harry Browne ran on that theme in 2000 (what government program that you personally like would you be willing to give up to get smaller government?) Hardly any one noticed. [/url]
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

D,

Thanks for the attaboy up thread.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Skipjack
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Post by Skipjack »

I think that we should try to avoid another major war at all cost. It would completely oblitterate the economy and cause massive loss in human lives. Whoever takes part in this will enter history as a villain and will probably be reduced to a 3rd world country.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

Skipjack wrote:I think that we should try to avoid another major war at all cost. It would completely oblitterate the economy and cause massive loss in human lives. Whoever takes part in this will enter history as a villain and will probably be reduced to a 3rd world country.
There is a reason America spends more on defense than all the rest of the nations combined. It discourages any nation or coalition of nations from starting a major war.

I do think the punitive expeditions in Iraq and Afghanistan have served their purpose. They sent the message loud and clear - you can fight us on your own turf but if you attack the US in a major way you will catch hell.

I do believe it is time to retire though and wait until they get stupid again. Because it will take those folks another century to join the 20th century.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Skipjack
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Post by Skipjack »

It discourages any nation or coalition of nations from starting a major war.
... with the US maybe.
I think that half the spending would have been enough to ensure that though. I mean any serious confrontation with the US would be completely suicidal, given the US' historic tendency to make use of nuclear weapons if they feel they have to.

GIThruster
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Post by GIThruster »

The last page of this thread seemed most reasonable until Skippy posted his anti-US propaganda:
given the US' historic tendency to make use of nuclear weapons if they feel they have to
Seems to me pretty obvious the US has no tendency to make use of nuclear weapons given they have not used them for more than 6 decades and lost several wars in that time.

Churchill's concern was about war as the result of nationalistic tensions, and ideological conflicts such as what caused WWII. The prime motivator of that was was certainly fears that communism would spread by force through Europe. Germany was one of the block nations that armed specifically to create containment, and once it was armed it decided for various reasons to go to war. We have not had conditions like this since WWII so we have not had such a war. If anything, the fall of the Soviet republic, the acceptance of socialism throughout most of Europe and a complete unwillingness to go to war since WWII has characterized the European nations. This is indeed why French Presidents have the gaul to instruct American Presidents publically about how they ought to respond to having their buildings burned and people murdered--because the Europeans generally believe themselves above ideological conflicts inflamed by things like nationalistic tension. Good for them. It's a shame they're so arrogant when it comes to judging themselves as opposed to others and as we've seen, it is indeed the Europeans who will push for war over oil--blood for oil as in Libya--and then carry spineless American presidents who care too much for their image overseas, along for the ride.

Does anyone think all the killing in Libya did more than secure Europe's oil and who is going to pay us for all those cruise missiles?

There is little likelihood we'll ever see a war like WWII again. The conditions do not exist to give rise to it and have not since the fall of the Iron Curtain. Instead, the Pentagon only prepares for "asymetric" conflicts. If the US were to go to war in the next decade, and I mean a real war, not some military intervention in an Arab Spring state; then this would likely come from use of a nuclear weapon by a bunch of religious nuts such as in Iran. While it's possible Iran will force someone's hand as they continue on with their weapons development, it's just as likely that the nations of the world will never use military force and we'll see a nuclear armed bunch of whackos sometime soon. When that happens, it will be specifically because the US has not used nuclear weapons for all these decades, and most believe will never again, that these insane Mullah's will strike against Israel, and the US will have to decide if it really is the protector it pretends to be.

Skippy is an anti-US propagandist, but we already knew that.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

Skipjack
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Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Post by Skipjack »

Seems to me pretty obvious the US has no tendency to make use of nuclear weapons given they have not used them for more than 6 decades and lost several wars in that time.
One war... the US lost one war and that was not even theirs and never on US soil...
I thought we were talking about wars that actually threaten the US...
Does anyone think all the killing in Libya did more than secure Europe's oil and who is going to pay us for all those cruise missiles?
I think you should have stayed out of it. Nobody is going to thank you for it in the long term. In contrary, people will view it as an interference by the US in their internal affairs. Just wait until the islamists take over in the "liberated" countries...
Skippy is an anti-US propagandist, but we already knew that.
If I am an anti US propagandist, then you are an idiot ;)

ladajo
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Location: North East Coast

Post by ladajo »

The Lybia thing was lead by the EU and NATO. An old friend of mine was the Italian Admiral in charge of the NATO task force. The US maintained a very soft touch and mostly provided support vice active engagement.

I think it is wrong to consider that the US was the military lead in Lybia.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

ladajo
Posts: 6258
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Post by ladajo »

Skipjack wrote:
It discourages any nation or coalition of nations from starting a major war.
... with the US maybe.
I think that half the spending would have been enough to ensure that though. I mean any serious confrontation with the US would be completely suicidal, given the US' historic tendency to make use of nuclear weapons if they feel they have to.
Here we go again on US Defense spending. Do I have to pull out all the real data again? Or are we gonig to base the discussion on half-truth agenda based misrepresentations all over again?

If you are so concernd about US spending, what do you think of Chinese spending? Do you even know what Chinese spending is? Do you know what current Russian spending and policies and priorities are?

I think you guys are myopic in your assessments at best.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

Skipjack
Posts: 6818
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Post by Skipjack »

I think it is wrong to consider that the US was the military lead in Lybia.
I never said it was. But nobody is going to thank anyone interfering there anyway.
Here we go again on US Defense spending. Do I have to pull out all the real data again? Or are we gonig to base the discussion on half-truth agenda based misrepresentations all over again?

If you are so concernd about US spending, what do you think of Chinese spending? Do you even know what Chinese spending is? Do you know what current Russian spending and policies and priorities are?
Why does it matter how much it is relative to the GDP? Why? In absolute numbers the US spends more than ever on defense and more than anybody else and that at a time when the same people in favor of said spending are calling for less "wasteful government spending". Quite a few libertarians think like me in this regard and I catch myself siding more and more often with them on certain matters, not just against the conservatives, but also against the Dems. What annoys me is the double morale and double talk that these GOP politicians demonstrate when they critizise spending on science and education as wasteful government spending, while they happily will throw money after defense corporations with both hands.

ladajo
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Post by ladajo »

The value of money is not constant (in several contexts). This seems to be the point that you miss.

Measuring in GDP helps make the value relative.

I am not just talking inflationary adjustment either.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

Skipjack
Posts: 6818
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Post by Skipjack »

I am not just talking inflationary adjustment either.
Actually inflation was taken into account in the statistics that I posted earlier. But lets not get this threat too far off topic.

Diogenes
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Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:33 pm

Post by Diogenes »

palladin9479

Your message is too big to read, but as near as I can tell, from the gist of it you seem to be a sort of ignorant loon re-purposing bad propaganda.

If I wanted to bother looking for it, I can find all sorts of crap that says it was Bush's fault. Democrats crank that sh*t out by the bushel. It gets quickly taken apart by people who can do math and remember history, but the Democrats buy it.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

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