Since we had this discussion about UAVs and F22s etc...

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Skipjack
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Re: Since we had this discussion about UAVs and F22s etc...

Postby Skipjack » Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:06 pm

I dont agree that it is that big of a problem and clearly neither does the US Airforce.

Tom Ligon
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Re: Since we had this discussion about UAVs and F22s etc...

Postby Tom Ligon » Sat May 02, 2015 12:08 am

The numbers our controls guys rattled around for smaller UAVs suggest to me that if your control inputs are half a second late you are just plain doomed. Really big craft could stand longer, but in general they hate any kind of delay, and tens of milliseconds make them cranky.

Which argues against using stick-to-surface control (what the RC guys use when flying models they can see directly) when sitting in some place civilized and controlling a remote piloted vehicle somewhere half a world away. But I don't think anybody in the business is doing stick-to-surface. The aircraft has at least some degree of autonomy, and its control system is closing the loop fast. All a pilot is doing is essentially programming an autopilot from a remote location. The really critical thing is to have some human judgement deciding what to look at and especially what to shoot at. There is generally a delay of some seconds in the command structure to authorize deadly force. You want to minimize it but a few hundred milliseconds is only likely to be critical in air to air combat.

As long as the craft are flying themselves, I see no problem with some latency in the pilot's inputs.

Diogenes
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Re: Since we had this discussion about UAVs and F22s etc...

Postby Diogenes » Mon May 04, 2015 7:26 pm

‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

hanelyp
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Re: Since we had this discussion about UAVs and F22s etc...

Postby hanelyp » Tue May 05, 2015 5:17 pm

The daylight is uncomfortably bright for eyes so long in the dark.

palladin9479
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Re: Since we had this discussion about UAVs and F22s etc...

Postby palladin9479 » Wed May 06, 2015 9:23 am


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Re: Since we had this discussion about UAVs and F22s etc...

Postby palladin9479 » Wed May 06, 2015 9:25 am


GIThruster
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Re: Since we had this discussion about UAVs and F22s etc...

Postby GIThruster » Wed May 06, 2015 2:27 pm

"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

Skipjack
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Re: Since we had this discussion about UAVs and F22s etc...

Postby Skipjack » Thu May 07, 2015 9:48 pm


Tom Ligon
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Re: Since we had this discussion about UAVs and F22s etc...

Postby Tom Ligon » Fri May 08, 2015 1:27 pm


palladin9479
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Re: Since we had this discussion about UAVs and F22s etc...

Postby palladin9479 » Mon May 11, 2015 4:52 am

You couldn't put them too far out though, the delay in communication from a ground based station via satcomm would be too much for target selection and acquisition and you absolutely do not want to give an autonomous device the ability to select it's own targets and kill them. That is one of those armchair general type ideas that come from the same place as "super soldiers who can't disobey an order", bad things will always happen in the end. I foresee it more as an airborne command and control vehicle receiving sensor information from the drone swarm and then relaying targeting information to them. That vehicle could be miles upon miles away, as long as there is LoS for direct radio communication then your good. Doesn't even need to be constant communication, receive sensor info, issue target list and AI program, then go radio silent and watch.

The human isn't needed for the dog fighting but for making real time decisions. Our AI is no where close enough to compete with a humans in an unbounded scenario, and if it was I would be very worried about turning it on and creating a "Skynet" scenario.

Skipjack
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Re: Since we had this discussion about UAVs and F22s etc...

Postby Skipjack » Mon May 11, 2015 10:16 pm

I think that this video here demonstrates pretty well how a networked team of multiple manned and unmanned AVs works together to destroy enemy defenses. This is a rather specific scenario, but I cant see why other scenarios could not be handled with drones in a similar fashion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A85Czh9KexI

Skipjack
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Re: Since we had this discussion about UAVs and F22s etc...

Postby Skipjack » Mon May 11, 2015 10:19 pm

I think that I have posted this video before. It illustrates quite nicely the cost difference between manned and unmanned systems and why UAVs are so effective through attrition of enemy air defenses.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPl_xKPI_5w

Diogenes
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Re: Since we had this discussion about UAVs and F22s etc...

Postby Diogenes » Tue May 12, 2015 3:28 am

‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —


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