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http://sigmaforum.org/editorial.php
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And a related post I did today:
http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/201 ... haiti.html
Tom Ligon on Haiti
Tom Ligon on Haiti
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
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alexjrgreen
- Posts: 815
- Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:03 pm
- Location: UK
Anyone fancy setting up a local factory for solar ovens?Even before Papa Doc came to power, damage from Hurricane Hazel in 1954, and stepped up logging for charcoal production, started a downward slide in the forests of the island. The process has continued to the present, driven by a demand for charcoal for cooking. I have seen estimates that about 98% of Haiti's forests are gone.
Ars artis est celare artem.
Tom mentions the use of solar cookers. I agree, but have a modified proposal.
It should be quite simple to develop a container for handling molten LiNO3. This container could be designed to slip onto a fitting on a solar concentrator and absorb a given amount of heat thru phase change (melting). The container could then be taken home and placed into a stove/oven that allows controlled release of the heat into the cooking process. It would allow a lot of cooking (container size depended) and allow baking up to ~450 degrees F. AND the cooking could be done at the convenience of the cook, not just when the sun shines.
One concentrator could be used for a large village, and extra containers could be kept topped up for cloudy days. If the clouds last TOO long, then other fuels could efficiently provide the heat. Even wood, if done properly.
Actually thought about this for India, but Haiti is dirt poor too, maybe even more so!
It should be quite simple to develop a container for handling molten LiNO3. This container could be designed to slip onto a fitting on a solar concentrator and absorb a given amount of heat thru phase change (melting). The container could then be taken home and placed into a stove/oven that allows controlled release of the heat into the cooking process. It would allow a lot of cooking (container size depended) and allow baking up to ~450 degrees F. AND the cooking could be done at the convenience of the cook, not just when the sun shines.
One concentrator could be used for a large village, and extra containers could be kept topped up for cloudy days. If the clouds last TOO long, then other fuels could efficiently provide the heat. Even wood, if done properly.
Actually thought about this for India, but Haiti is dirt poor too, maybe even more so!
alexjrgreen wrote:Anyone fancy setting up a local factory for solar ovens?Even before Papa Doc came to power, damage from Hurricane Hazel in 1954, and stepped up logging for charcoal production, started a downward slide in the forests of the island. The process has continued to the present, driven by a demand for charcoal for cooking. I have seen estimates that about 98% of Haiti's forests are gone.
I have been to Haiti recently. There were lots of trees. Just not in Port-au-Prince.
I think the issue in Haiti is that "the average Haitian would rather pay for a cell phone than food" (that is actually a direct quote from a Haitian I worked with in Haiti). It seems to them that someone is always handing out some free food. The other problem with Haiti, is that if you get a group of Haitians together, and they group decide that something is not to satisfaction (ie: I am not getting mine - note use of "I" and "They"), they will riot. I saw it in person and close.
Do gooders have created an entire national economic model based on Humanitarian aid and donations. Haiti has no reason to get off it. Some Haitians I worked with were trying to change it, but most just like the free stuff and don't want to or have need to change. They are happy to live in a pile of rocks with a piece of corrogated tin or two, a cell phone and one "nice" set of clothes. Work is not required.
I watched the news yesterday, and saw a family sitting in the street across the road from the pile that was their home, Mom & co. had no food, water or shelter, and were making no effort to seek it out, but dang it if mum wasn't clutching that Blackberry like a purse. Tonight I saw CNN's Anderson Cooper talking about how horrible it is that the Haitian government wasn't putting dirt on top of body piles outside of town. I was there pre-quake and they didn't even bother to take bodies from the street. The pile was a step up. The worst thing about this quake is that all the aid will only further the broken corrupt system, and prolong the pain.
Man, that is sad. You know, your description reminds me of the movie District 9 for some reason.ladajo wrote:alexjrgreen wrote:Anyone fancy setting up a local factory for solar ovens?Even before Papa Doc came to power, damage from Hurricane Hazel in 1954, and stepped up logging for charcoal production, started a downward slide in the forests of the island. The process has continued to the present, driven by a demand for charcoal for cooking. I have seen estimates that about 98% of Haiti's forests are gone.
I have been to Haiti recently. There were lots of trees. Just not in Port-au-Prince.
I think the issue in Haiti is that "the average Haitian would rather pay for a cell phone than food" (that is actually a direct quote from a Haitian I worked with in Haiti). It seems to them that someone is always handing out some free food. The other problem with Haiti, is that if you get a group of Haitians together, and they group decide that something is not to satisfaction (ie: I am not getting mine - note use of "I" and "They"), they will riot. I saw it in person and close.
Do gooders have created an entire national economic model based on Humanitarian aid and donations. Haiti has no reason to get off it. Some Haitians I worked with were trying to change it, but most just like the free stuff and don't want to or have need to change. They are happy to live in a pile of rocks with a piece of corrogated tin or two, a cell phone and one "nice" set of clothes. Work is not required.
I watched the news yesterday, and saw a family sitting in the street across the road from the pile that was their home, Mom & co. had no food, water or shelter, and were making no effort to seek it out, but dang it if mum wasn't clutching that Blackberry like a purse. Tonight I saw CNN's Anderson Cooper talking about how horrible it is that the Haitian government wasn't putting dirt on top of body piles outside of town. I was there pre-quake and they didn't even bother to take bodies from the street. The pile was a step up. The worst thing about this quake is that all the aid will only further the broken corrupt system, and prolong the pain.
That matches my experience in another ex-slave tropical island. You can get in a lot of trouble with blue collar workforce if you ignore (defy in their eyes) that status quo.
It's a real calamity.EricF wrote:Man, that is sad. You know, your description reminds me of the movie District 9 for some reason.
The other problem with Haiti, is that if you get a group of Haitians together, and they group decide that something is not to satisfaction (ie: I am not getting mine - note use of "I" and "They"), they will riot. I saw it in person and close.
The French have the same disease. Not to that extent.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
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Josh Cryer
- Posts: 526
- Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:19 am
We discussed solar distilleries for water for Haiti on DU. It became a flame-fest (the original suggestion was inflatable swimming pools and plastic sheets; I advocated a more permanent solution). But I do think there is something there.
Haiti's water situation was abysmal even before the earthquake, now it looks as if it is going to be significantly worse, if not completely destroyed in the most populated areas.
So sell them the mirrors and piping (or give it to them) and teach them the necessary knowledge to build the distilleries. It is very simple backyard science stuff, simple plumbing materials and simple cutting of wood. Really, it is.
The whole do-gooder mentality is great, and missionaries particularly like Haiti because they get welcomed so easily, but actual substantiative knowledge sharing could create a whole new generation of Haitians who are willing to build themselves up.
Give a person with poor water quality a chlorine tablet, they drink non-bacterially infected water for a day.
Give a person with poor water quality some mirrors, metal tubing, wood, and some vessels, and the knowledge to make their own distillery, they drink for a lifetime.
Haiti's water situation was abysmal even before the earthquake, now it looks as if it is going to be significantly worse, if not completely destroyed in the most populated areas.
So sell them the mirrors and piping (or give it to them) and teach them the necessary knowledge to build the distilleries. It is very simple backyard science stuff, simple plumbing materials and simple cutting of wood. Really, it is.
The whole do-gooder mentality is great, and missionaries particularly like Haiti because they get welcomed so easily, but actual substantiative knowledge sharing could create a whole new generation of Haitians who are willing to build themselves up.
Give a person with poor water quality a chlorine tablet, they drink non-bacterially infected water for a day.
Give a person with poor water quality some mirrors, metal tubing, wood, and some vessels, and the knowledge to make their own distillery, they drink for a lifetime.
Science is what we have learned about how not to fool ourselves about the way the world is.
I was a member of A Santeria group in Chicago for about a year. I never enjoyed religion so much in all my life. Rituals with naked dancing girls. Wooooo Hoooooo!!!!!!!!!KitemanSA wrote:An aquaintance of mine suggested that this be thought of as follows:
Take the worst of French Catholicism, and the worst of African Animism, marry them together and you get VooDoo, and Haiti.
Nuff said?
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Josh,
You can't just give people pipes and stuff. You have to teach them about contamination and rigid quality control. And that is where most of these schemes fall down. Quality control.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
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Josh Cryer
- Posts: 526
- Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:19 am
There's little risk of contamination in piping that is 1200F. The resulting water is pure and cleaning the components every two or three months is a relatively simple process.MSimon wrote:Josh,
You can't just give people pipes and stuff. You have to teach them about contamination and rigid quality control. And that is where most of these schemes fall down. Quality control.
The current (previous) water control process in Haiti was simply down to giving them big chlorine tablets to kill bacteria and other infectious diseases. It's certainly cheap, but they have no way to make their own chlorine tablets.
Here's what you do. Set up a company making solar distilleries for third world countries, have Haitians build them, and they get to keep a percentage of the ones they build. Rather than sweatshop labor for us they'd be doing real world work for other third world countries that could benefit from the distilleries, too. All the while they'd be building up their water infrastructure (something we in the western world take for granted), and learning important lessons about hygiene.
Science is what we have learned about how not to fool ourselves about the way the world is.