Socialism As Socialism Does

[Jccarlton]

If it were not for the collateral damage and the desperate need for growth right now I would would say: "lets give them what they want.":
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/04/ ... obama.html

[MSimon]

All the pop-ups are making that site unreadable.

[Gallium]

Disclaimer: Both European and Socialist.

Quick question. Can somebody explain why is the american debate at the moment, particularly about healthcare, is so vengeful?

Firing out insults by the left, the right and center to the point at which the right in particular no longer even even seems capable of acknowledging the existence of a point of view other than their own. This article seems a case and point. This type of view and thinking can be very corrosive in the long term, doubly so in a democracy where a level of cooperation is required.

Sure, the you may view socialist as nothing more than commie scum here to destroy apple pie and the american way, but be warned. You have to live them just as much as they have to live with those who would like to pay no taxes and let the poor starve and be worked to death.

[Betruger]

Insults because they can't find any more convincing arguments and because they're that convinced of and adamant about living by their values. You could call it righteousness; it's in no small part a cultural thing too.

[MSimon]

Disclaimer: Both European and Socialist.

Quick question. Can somebody explain why is the american debate at the moment, particularly about healthcare, is so vengeful?

Firing out insults by the left, the right and center to the point at which the right in particular no longer even even seems capable of acknowledging the existence of a point of view other than their own. This article seems a case and point. This type of view and thinking can be very corrosive in the long term, doubly so in a democracy where a level of cooperation is required.

Sure, the you may view socialist as nothing more than commie scum here to destroy apple pie and the american way, but be warned. You have to live them just as much as they have to live with those who would like to pay no taxes and let the poor starve and be worked to death.

Bankruptcy.

[Diogenes]

Disclaimer: Both European and Socialist.

Quick question. Can somebody explain why is the american debate at the moment, particularly about healthcare, is so vengeful?

Firing out insults by the left, the right and center to the point at which the right in particular no longer even even seems capable of acknowledging the existence of a point of view other than their own. This article seems a case and point. This type of view and thinking can be very corrosive in the long term, doubly so in a democracy where a level of cooperation is required.

Sure, the you may view socialist as nothing more than commie scum here to destroy apple pie and the american way, but be warned. You have to live them just as much as they have to live with those who would like to pay no taxes and let the poor starve and be worked to death.

The American Right is not the European right. The European right descended from the aristocracy and was steeped in monarchist tradition.
The European left was derived from the peasantry and those who led them in revolt.

The American Right was created by the founders in opposition to both Monarchy/Aristocracy on the one hand, and Mob Rule/Democracy on the other.

As a result, the American right is unique. Likewise, it is what makes the country function. The silly buggers that keep trying to chop it (The Founder's Philosophy) down don't realize that it is the only thing holding us up.

The forces that move any nation to the left are a positive feedback effect. Unchallenged, they will eventually lead to revolution.

The Force that challenges the left in America (and for that matter, the rest of the world as well.) is the American right. They are the Negative feedback effect. Constantly opposing the expansion of Government power and influence, so as not to reach the point of oligarchy again.
(Have no doubt, the Russian Communist party members were the Aristocracy, and the Premier was the King.)

We on the right regard movements to enact socialist policies as moving us further along the road towards tyranny. We do not wish to go any further down that road, and we are becoming more determined and militant about stopping it.

If you think that the American right sounds VENGEFUL, Know this. We inherited the sentiment faithfully from our Founders.

SAMUEL ADAMS
If ye love wealth better than freedom, the tranquility of servitude than the animating contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands that feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.


— Thomas Jefferson
“A little rebellion now and then is a good thing;The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. ”

[MirariNefas]

If it were not for the collateral damage and the desperate need for growth right now I would would say: "lets give them what they want.":
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/04/ ... obama.html

His logic seems to be that all or most conservatives have six kids like he does, and that no major group of liberals is similar in that respect. Therefore there will be a net shift of wealth from liberals.

[MSimon]

If it were not for the collateral damage and the desperate need for growth right now I would would say: "lets give them what they want.":
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/04/ ... obama.html

His logic seems to be that all or most conservatives have six kids like he does, and that no major group of liberals is similar in that respect. Therefore there will be a net shift of wealth from liberals.

Actually the stereotypes are not far off. It is all about thermodynamics:

http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/200 ... d-red.html

You should really read the article linked in the above. It goes into much more depth than my introduction.

In general cities do not reproduce. Kids are too thermodynamically expensive in cities.

With the great concentrations of wealth they are also easily looted. By politicians in good times by bands of marauders in bad. You can blockade New York City. Blockading Nebraska will be tougher.

[Skipjack]

The american politics are still dominated by behaviouristic ideas, both on the left and the right. The behaviourism, like the lamarquism which it is closely related to is wrong. Both still are based on a thinking in "classes" and both long ago been proven wrong by the existance of genetics.
In any case both left and right are wrong. The best way is to put all ideologies aside, but that would require people to look beyond religion.

[Diogenes]

The american politics are still dominated by behaviouristic ideas, both on the left and the right. The behaviourism, like the lamarquism which it is closely related to is wrong. Both still are based on a thinking in "classes" and both long ago been proven wrong by the existance of genetics.
In any case both left and right are wrong. The best way is to put all ideologies aside, but that would require people to look beyond religion.

I study the left, and I study the right. Do you?

I seriously think you need to do some research on this subject. One of my biggest and most common mistakes is assuming other people have bothered to learn what i've learned.

[Jccarlton]

The american politics are still dominated by behaviouristic ideas, both on the left and the right. The behaviourism, like the lamarquism which it is closely related to is wrong. Both still are based on a thinking in "classes" and both long ago been proven wrong by the existance of genetics.
In any case both left and right are wrong. The best way is to put all ideologies aside, but that would require people to look beyond religion.

What I know is there is one group that wants to enserf the entire world for their own benefit and another that wants everybody to more or less live their own lives. Makes who I support real simple. I don't need references to genetics and fancy references to nuance European philosophies to know what is right and what inevitably ends in disaster and mass death. With a slow death of the human spirit coming first.
Here is a classic case of what happens in a Socialist society:
http://englishrussia.com/index.php/2010 ... at-a-view/
These buildings were all too common in Soviet times. Bad construction techniques to meet quotas, corruption and just plain terrible workmanship by guys who just did not care and you get things like this. No fancy words and nuance can escape the reality of what happens in a Socialist society. I have references from the entire 20th century of the same kinds of things happening over and over all over the world and yet people still want to believe that this time it will actually work.

[MSimon]

Once upon a time Germany had a solution for their social security problem:

http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/200 ... urity.html

[Jccarlton]

Once upon a time Germany had a solution for their social security problem:

http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/200 ... urity.html

The simple fact is that social welfare programs are unsustainable. The system creates massive disincentives to create and massive incentives to steal, especially if you are connected. That's one problem with American cities. Too many people stealing the resources. When the middle class was encouraged to move out and industries encouraged to disperse their factories the cities did not have the resources left to sustain themselves and did not have the vision to create a new middle class. I've seen too many American cities that have effectively died in the core.

[MSimon]

Once upon a time Germany had a solution for their social security problem:

http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/200 ... urity.html

The simple fact is that social welfare programs are unsustainable. The system creates massive disincentives to create and massive incentives to steal, especially if you are connected. That's one problem with American cities. Too many people stealing the resources. When the middle class was encouraged to move out and industries encouraged to disperse their factories the cities did not have the resources left to sustain themselves and did not have the vision to create a new middle class. I've seen too many American cities that have effectively died in the core.

The Fabulous Ruins Of Detroit

[Gallium]

Ok then, a quick question to those currently denouncing socialist ideals.

Can you name 5 things that you would consider good about socialistic policies?

Consider it an experiment into the health of a democracy.