Nuclear Reactors Hit By Earthquake In Japan

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KitemanSA
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Postby KitemanSA » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:18 pm

Robots enter Fukushima - finally! American robots. Where are the famous Japanese robots?

http://blogs.nature.com/news/thegreatbe ... shima.html

ladajo
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Postby ladajo » Thu May 12, 2011 7:21 pm

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/05/12 ... y-thought/

Haaa! Been saying this ALL ALONG!!!

Sucks being right sometimes. :?

Giorgio
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Postby Giorgio » Fri May 13, 2011 10:08 am

Uhm... let's wait until they can get a better look at it.
This is the third time I hear that there has been a partial fusion just to see the claim retracted few days later. I think that they still do not have a clear idea about the real situation.
Plus, this is coming from Fox news! :D

MSimon
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Postby MSimon » Fri May 13, 2011 12:39 pm

ladajo wrote:http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/05/12/reactor-core-japan-nuke-plant-severely-damaged-originally-thought/

Haaa! Been saying this ALL ALONG!!!

Sucks being right sometimes. :?


I haven't been following the discussion here but I have been blogging it a lot.

http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/sea ... /Fukushima

I believe my conclusions are similar. Most of the nukes I have read on the 'net think it is worse than is being reported.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

ladajo
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Postby ladajo » Sat May 14, 2011 3:23 am

Too many clues early on to think that they did not breach. The released isotopes alone were a big warning lamp.

ladajo
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Postby ladajo » Sun May 15, 2011 5:33 pm

Well, BBC picked it up as well.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13404548

This will make clean up very complicated. They may have to go with entombment.
TMI-2 did not breach, and thus was much easy to clean up.

Sigh, another blow to the nuclear industry. :(

MSimon
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Postby MSimon » Sun May 15, 2011 7:52 pm

ladajo wrote:Well, BBC picked it up as well.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13404548

This will make clean up very complicated. They may have to go with entombment.
TMI-2 did not breach, and thus was much easy to clean up.

Sigh, another blow to the nuclear industry. :(


The nuke industry is run by fools. Rather than redesign the industry after TMI (intrinsically safe reactors) they decided to keep flogging the first cut design solutions (with minor modifications).

With the new designs in hand they could have called for replacement of all the "unsafe" reactors - a building boom. Now the call will be for no reactors. Idiots.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
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Postby MSimon » Mon May 16, 2011 3:27 am

Worse than Chernobyl.

http://www.fairewinds.com/content/russi ... -chernobyl

The pooch has been screwed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDqbAb-Yomk

Arnie is a former nuke industry wheel:

http://www.fairewinds.com/content/who-we-are

Arnie is an energy advisor with 39-years of nuclear power engineering experience. A former nuclear industry senior vice president, he earned his Bachelor's and Master's Degrees in nuclear engineering, holds a nuclear safety patent, and was a licensed reactor operator. During his nuclear industry career, Arnie managed and coordinated projects at 70-nuclear power plants around the country. He currently speaks on television, radio, and at public meetings on the need for a new paradigm in energy production. An independent nuclear engineering and safety expert, Arnie provides testimony on nuclear operations, reliability, safety, and radiation issues to the NRC, Congressional and State Legislatures, and Government Agencies and Officials throughout the US, Canada, and internationally. In 2008, he was appointed by the Vermont Senate President to be the first Chair of the Vermont Yankee Nuclear Power Plant Oversight Panel.


And just to give you the warm fuzzies - high levels of I-131 60 days after the accident.

So how about some numbahs. Half life of I-131 = 8 days (and a smidge)

60/8 = 7.5

2^7.5 = 181

So by now levels of I-131 should be roughly 200 times less than they were on accident day. High levels at this point in time? Re-criticality. Very bad news.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
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Postby MSimon » Tue May 17, 2011 6:56 am

Luzr wrote:
Giorgio wrote:The reactor was designed to withstand an earthquake magnitude 7.5. I have been hearing all the day journalists stating that this is a proof that nuclear reactors are not safe.....


Frankly, this really is ridiculous.

With so many dead by tsunami, nobody was killed by those nukes. There were 300 dead in chemical plant exploding. I guess what went from that plant during the explosion was not very healthy stuff indeed. But nobody suggests that chemical plants are too dangerous and should be closed worldwide...

So far, those nuclear plants hold quite well, given conditions. No deads, not much radiation escaped. I would say they should rather by used to showcase the safety of nuclear plants.


Of course the above was from early on. And we are now finding out that the news was "managed". i.e. lies of omission:

http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/201 ... -2011.html

They knew early on that the cores had melted, and the reactor vessels and containment were breached. BTW if you use the tags at the end of the article you can follow my reporting on the subject from the tsunami until today.

======

Also note: the "official" TMI story is not the real one. Significant radiation was released into the environment and people won suits based on what really happened. I have links in the above to the "true" TMI story.

======

The difficulties with the nukes in Japan are causing serious power shortages. Of course any deaths that causes won't be attributed to nuke power.

======

As I said in a previous post: this could mostly have been avoided if the industry had focused on intrinsically safe designs (self cooled with no power after shutdown). A LOT of money could have been made by flogging safer designs.

=====

The nuclear industry (except for maintenance) is dead for another 25 years. Fortunately my brother-in-law is retired from his job as an RO in Michigan (Benton Harbor - for all you Heathkit fans).
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
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Postby MSimon » Tue May 17, 2011 7:15 am

Skipjack wrote:Maui, I have never said that Fox news is doing a better story than MSNBC...
In contrary pretty much all the news stations are picking up on this.
I am currently reading the live feed of the BBC and they are also guilty of blowing the situation out of proportion. The left media here in Europe is the worst though. They are clearly and I really mean clearly having a political agenda. They want the green party in office again in Germany and it is of course hurting Merkels party who has been very pro nuclear.
In a sense the earthquake in Japan is going to harm the future of Europe in a big way.


We are now finding out that the reporting was not too sensationalist. In fact at this point in time there is significant under reporting.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Betruger
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Postby Betruger » Tue May 17, 2011 12:38 pm

Not just antinukes and greenies, but blood sucking reporters are redeemed. Yay.

bcglorf
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Postby bcglorf » Tue May 17, 2011 2:18 pm

Betruger wrote:Not just antinukes and greenies, but blood sucking reporters are redeemed. Yay.


Even better is the public reaction will mean a big win for all of us. Three cheers for 3 more decades of nothing but coal!!!

bcglorf
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Postby bcglorf » Tue May 17, 2011 2:26 pm

Worse than Chernobyl.

Now, I admit I haven't been following that closely lately, but really?

By what measure? Overall release of radioactivity? Immediate or projected deaths? Financial cleanup costs?

It sounded like the current assessment was core breach, quite likely on all 3 damaged reactors. That has corresponded to massive coolant leakage contaminating the area, but still more localized than Chernobyl and entombment an easier feat than it was for Chernobyl. At least not requiring suicidal missions to avoid further catastrophic disaster.

MSimon
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Postby MSimon » Tue May 17, 2011 7:03 pm

bcglorf wrote:Worse than Chernobyl.

Now, I admit I haven't been following that closely lately, but really?

By what measure? Overall release of radioactivity? Immediate or projected deaths? Financial cleanup costs?

It sounded like the current assessment was core breach, quite likely on all 3 damaged reactors. That has corresponded to massive coolant leakage contaminating the area, but still more localized than Chernobyl and entombment an easier feat than it was for Chernobyl. At least not requiring suicidal missions to avoid further catastrophic disaster.


Total radiation release. You have 7 or more cores spewing: 3 reactors and 4 spent fuel pools.

Let me point out again that I'm not anti-nuke. I'm anti-bad design.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
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Postby MSimon » Tue May 17, 2011 7:13 pm

Localized? I'm preparing my next update and in it you will find that tea plantations near Tokyo are contaminated.

Of course the Japanese were lucky. The wind has been blowing out to sea relative to Fukushima. Had the accident happened in July the results would have been much worse than they have been.

We shall see. Wind direction will be changing and by mid June will be blowing inland. If the site is still spewing (it hasn't stopped yet) a lot more area will be added to the exclusion zones.

So you can't talk "safety" when it depends on wind direction.

What I want from the nuke industry is reactors that are safe even without available electric power. You have to ask yourself why they didn't go that route after TMI?
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.


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